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and he was a very sharp, well-informed man. He came to me for infor- 

 mation, and I think I got very much the best of it. Now those Australian 

 roads are Government roads. They are built and owned and operated 

 by the Government. Their conditions and the conditions of that 

 colony are about the same as those of California. Their passenger rates 

 on an average, as nearly as it can be got at — because they do not keep 

 their statistics as we do — run fully 40 per cent higher than our passenger 

 rates. Their freight rates are exactly double our average. But it does 

 not seem to me that these figures are to the point. You gentlemen do 

 not care what it costs you to raise peaches as distinct from what it costs 

 you to produce apricots or lemons when you have the hard fact staring 

 you in the face that whatever you raise your business is unprofitable. 

 It does not satisfy you to find out that one thing is raised for a little 

 less than another thing. So it is with the railroads and with these com- 

 parisons. When we face the hard fact that the profits of the business 

 are gone and that the railroads are barely able to sustain themselves, 

 meet their expenses, pay their taxes, and keep themselves square with 

 the world, that sort of comparison is of very little use to anybody. Gen- 

 tlemen, I thank you for your kindly attention. 



Mr. Buck: Is there any reason why the Southern Pacific cannot give 

 us a scheduled fruit train with ventilator cars to Chicago, on time the 

 same as that made by passenger trains? 



Mr. Curtis: I should say there is no reason why that cannot be done. 

 The Southern Pacific controls the matter; as far as it runs its trains it 

 will make its share of that time and will use its influence with its con- 

 nections in that direction. An arrangement of that kind was made last 

 year, and except for the unfortunate condition of affairs brought about 

 by the strike, undoubtedly it would have been accomplished — a five 

 days' schedule from Sacramento to Chicago. Mr. Buck was not pres- 

 ent this morning when Mr. Smurr informed the convention quite fully 

 on that point and read you his correspondence with our Eastern con- 

 nections, with the General Freight Agents of Eastern roads, and with 

 the Manager of the Union Pacific. The arrangement was made last 

 year, and it would have been followed except for the labor troubles. 



Mr. Buck: There is no difficulty about ten-car lots being made up if 

 growers can have the assurance from somewhere that they will be taken. 

 I was one of the committee that visited Mr. Smurr last year. That 

 gentleman gave us the assurance that this would be done. 



Mr. Curtis : The agreement as understood by the railroad people of 

 the Union Pacific, as well as by ourselves, was that the usual ten-car 

 train would be furnished. That is a very small train. The railroad 

 people substituted this free expedited service for the paid service for- 

 merly made, because it seemed feasible for the fruit shippers to get 

 together at least ten cars for each train run. 



Mr. Buck: There would be no trouble in furnishing ten cars, and 

 much more than ten cars, if the fruit men had assurance that they 

 would go. The first week there might be more or less uncertainty, 

 there might not be more than three, or five, or eight cars; but before 

 the train had run one week there would be ten cars, and much more 

 than ten cars, because we would then save the cost of refrigerating, 

 which is a big tax. There is a large part of the products of California 

 that would be shipped in ventilated cars if we could have the assurance 

 that they would be landed in Chicago on the fifth day. We don't want 



