438 



FOREST AND STREAM. 



fNov. 16, 1896. 



Paul North Suggests a Handicap. 



We have received from Paul North, of the Chaniberlin Target and 

 Cartridge Company, Cleveland, 0., a letter dated Nov. 4, in which he 

 describes a system of handicapping that has been suggested to him, 

 and which has bo taken his fancy that he thinks of trying it at his 

 tournament next summer. Mr. North, however, does not. want to 

 adopt the system without having it thoroughly discussed. He asks 

 us, therefore, to give his letter to the trap-shooting public, and also to 

 express our views as to its feasibility and probable chances of popu- 

 larity. The letter referred to runs as follows: 

 "Editor Forest and Stream: 



"While at the Atlanta tournament, one evening in talking over tour- 

 naments with Judge Lindsay, of Knoxville, he suggested a handicap 

 that was new to me and I believe new to most target-shooters, that 

 struck me most favorably, and made such an impression that it is very 

 possible that it will be used at the Chamberlin tournament in 1896, 



"Handicaps have been a study with me for some years, and as yet 

 a handicap that gives any sort of satisfaction has not been introduced. 

 Handicapping by changing the style of shooting or by distance or by 

 giving dead birds does not seem to fill the bill, and any fixed handicap 

 that does not recognize the fact that at some tournaments a person 

 does much better shooting than at others is manifestly unfair. As the 

 judge says, if you give a man odds enough he will bet the sun won't 

 rise the next morning, and this handicap is based on the giving of odds 

 in the entry instead of in the style of shooting. 



"The handicap is as follows: All events are at the same number of 

 targets and have the same entry fee. Moneys divided 30, 25, 20, 15 and 

 10 per cent. Entry in first event, $3. In second event winners of first 

 money in first event pay 84, winners of second pay $3.50, winners of 

 third pay $3, winners of fourth pay $2 50 and winners of fifth or those 

 not getting a place pay $2. The handicap will be a sliding handicap, 

 each event being the basis for handicapping in the event following. 



"Under this handicap the shooter who goes up into first and second 

 money most of the time and never fails to land in the money some- 

 where, and is a winner in nearly every event, pays more for the privi- 

 lege of shooting than the man who is out of a place part of the time 

 and lands in fourth and fifth places most of the time only to find that 

 he will rarely if ever get back his entrance money and is a sure loser. 

 The good shot will pay f rem. $12 to SI 4 a day more entrance than the poor 

 shot and still be a winner, but not to so large an extent as formerly. 



"At every large tournament this season there have been from 

 twenty to twenty-five shooters who have won the bulk of the money 

 and who if they were to shoot individual matches against any of the 

 other shooters present would have to lay even better odds than four 

 to two in order to get; on a match. Why then should they not give 

 odds in the sweepstakes? At small tournaments, where the entry fee 

 is small, instead of making a difference of fifty cents in the entrance 

 fees, from ten to twenty-five cents difference can be made. 



"I would like very much to have this handicap discussed and tried, 

 and to be advised personally or through the columns of the sporting 

 papers of the opinions of all interested in the matter, and would like to 

 have your trap editor give his opinion also, as, unless it is proved to be 

 a failure in practical operation, it will be used at the next Chamberlin 

 tournament. Hoping to have a general discussion on the subject, I 

 remain, etc." 



After carefully going through the above letter, and after examin- 

 ing the workings of the system by takiug the scores made at tourna- 

 ments where the events were equal in all respscts, and comparing the 

 totals of winnings and losings under the present system with those 

 under the proposed system, we hardly think the handicap Gordian 

 knot has been severed. Winnings and losings are cut down, it is true; 

 the big loser finds that he is some dollars in pocket by the system, 

 while the big winner finds that his balance is a few dollars less than it 

 would be under the present style. Take a programme of eight 20- 

 target events; $3 entrance would be the usual thing nowadays; the 

 difference to a man who never got a portion of any purse would be 

 $7, i. e., first event $3. the balance $2, or $17 as agaicst $24. Of course 

 $7 is a consideration, but would any additional shooters be induced to 

 enter an event under the proposed system? We don't believe in lynch- 

 ings; we would rather every murderer had a fair trial. On the same 

 principle we would prefer to see the proposed system given a fair 

 trial aiso before placing it on the shelf with a dozen different systems 

 that have failed while under fire. 



We are of the opinion that the system might work to better advantage 

 if the idea of class shoot ing were done away with. This may sound like 

 heresy, but we believe the time will come when class shooting as at 

 present practiced will be done away with. It is an anomaly, and is. 

 full of glaring injustices; a system that permits a man to win moie 

 money by missing live birds or targets tban by killing the one or 

 by breaking the others, is an outrage upon the common sense of the 

 shooting public. Judge Lindsay, through Mr. North, has propounded 

 a scheme for attracting shooters by penalizing winners, but ne holds 

 on to the old class shooting. May we suggest to the above-named gen- 

 tlemen the following amendment; to their motion: 



Do away with class shooting and make it high guns. 



That sounds like advocating the cause of the professional expert— 

 but wait a moment: Adopt the system above deacribed in so far as it 

 penalizes winners, but do away with class shooting; make one money 

 for (say) every 3 entries, i. e., for 30 entries the money would go to 

 the 10 high guns. Suppose at the end of a 20-target event that the 

 cashier found that there were four straights, four 19s, and five 18s; 

 the first 8 men would each take one money, while there would be 5 

 tied for two moneys; where that event was not the last on the pro- 

 gramme, the tie should be settled by the longest straight run in the 

 next event-practically on the miss-and-out plan— unless the 5 agreed 

 to draw down their share of the two moneys. In the case of it being 

 the last event, they could draw lots or divide. 



The division of the moneys is the next thing to explain: With 30 

 entries at $3 each the purse would be $90, less the pric^ of the 600 tar- 

 gets at 3 cents each— $18— that is $72 net. Divide that $72 on the .plan 

 suggested by Rose, of ratio points— 4, 2 and 1. That would give us: 

 4X4—16 

 4X2— 8 

 2X1-2 



20)72(2.76 

 52 



200 



182 



~180 

 156 



24 



that is, $2.76 per ratio point. ..... 



Under this system the four straights would each receive 4 times 

 $2 76— $11.04; the four 19s would draw twice 82.76— $5.52, while the two 

 moneys for the five 18s to fight for would each be worth $2.78, 

 (Where the 17s came in for any money, supposing there were not 

 enough straights, 19s or 18s to take up all the moneys, the ratio points 

 would be 8, 4, 2 and 1. If the straights aud 19s took all the moneys, 

 the ratio points would be 2 to 1, the principle being that the straights 

 should each receive twice as much as each 19, and each 19 twice as 

 much as each 18, and so on.) The above is really not as complicated 

 as it looks; try a few examples and you will find that any ordinarily 

 competent tournament cashier would experience no trouble in making 

 out his pay-roll, , 



We would not penalize winners of anything leas than second P'ace. 

 In the above case the 18s would enter in the next event at par— $3. 

 while the 17s and all below them would go iu at $3.50 or $2 per capita. 

 Charge the winners in the first class $4 each, and those in the second 

 class $3.50 each, as their entrance money in the next event they shoot 



We do not claim for this system that it would attract any additional 

 shooters to face the traps; it might do so or again it might not. But 

 we do claim for it the merit of fairness, as it pays a man according to 

 his just deserts. It would never pay to drop for place, since the higher 

 number one broke, the more would one receive. The reason tor 

 penalizing winners is well explained by Mr. North, so we need not 

 refer to that point. 



Many men, many minds; pull us to pieces aud thresh the question 

 out. We can afford to sacrifice our feelings for the good of the cause. 



Rye Gun Club. 



Rye, N. Y., Nov. 5.— Election Day was the opening day of our club 

 for the season of 1895-96. During the day 150 good birds were trapped I 

 40 of which proved too rapid for the shooters. The coming Thanks, 

 giving Day shoot promises to be a good one. Many Connecticut 

 shooters will attend, while entries from the neighboring towns, and 

 from New York city members and their friends, shall make up a large 

 and jolly list of shooters. Scores of to-days shoot: 



No.l. No. 2. No. 3. No. 4. 



Ganun 021202212—7 111—8 110-2 011—2 



Pope 100111010-5 000-0 110—2 



Graham... 001-1 110-2 101-2 



Gedney 011-2 010-1 000-0 



Doyle,. 010-1 100-1 ... 



Lyon 110-2 100-1 001-1 



Downing , ... 100—1 



Buckley ... ... HI- 3 



Allen 301-2 



Field 302-8 101-2 



E. J. P., Sec'y , 



1111211110 



— 9 



.2211112 



— 7 



2220 



— 3 



20 



— 1 



.10 



— 1 







— 







— 







— 



Trap Around Pittsburg. 



HERRON HILL <!PN CLUB, 



Pittsburg, Pa., Nov. 5.— The practice shoot at Brunot's Island to-day 

 brought out thirteen members of the Herron Hill Gun Club. Three 

 events were shot, the first two 10-bird events, the third a $2 miss-and- 

 out. Fargo won the first event with a straight score; the second saw 

 McWhorter and Ludwig kill their 10 straight. The miss-and-out went 

 to C. A May, who was forced by McWhorter to kill 18 straight to 

 win. During the afternoon McWhorter ran 32 straight, shooting from 

 the ;28yds. mark. Scores: 



No. 1. No. 2. 



Fargo (27) 2222212232-10 2212222202— 9 



C A May (30) 1121201112— 9 2222110111— 9 



AH King (30) 1202122122- 9 1111110122— 9 



Ludwig (28) 111120-3122— 9 2212122222—10 



M Jacques (28) 2011211222- 9 2212201222— 9 



W S King (28) 1110222101— 8 2110111110— 8 



Old Sport (26) 1201112110— 8 0111221011— 8 



D Wood (25) 2201011211— 8 0112002102— 6 



J H Shaffer (28) 0111221110- 8 2011011211- 8 



Wall (28) 1011222210- 8 0122222122— 9 



E H McWhorter (28) 2020021122— 7 2222121222—10 



Cleveland (27) 0101011012— 6 0101211111— 8 



Hofmeister (26) 1210202000- 5 2101110001- 6 



No. 3, miss-and-out, $2: 



C A May (30) 112111112121221212—18 



McWhorter (28) 222222222222221220-17 



Cleveland (27) . 



KING AND MESSNER SHOOT A TIE RACE. 



Nov. v.— It took 2 hours and 27 minutes to finish the match shot to- 

 day at Brunot's Island. The contestants were A. H. King and John 

 G. Messner, the conditions of the match being: 100 live birds per man, 

 30yds. rise, $100 a side. The birds were a poor lot and it was the cause 

 of much astonishment when all was over and it was found that the 

 two men were tied with 88 each. Messner had only to kill his last bird 

 to win, but a ehocalate- colored bird from No. 2 trap beat him. A 

 Pittsburg paper in giving an account of the match says: 



"After each had shot at 25 birds Messner was two in the lead. When 

 50 had been shot at King was only one behind. Both were even when 

 75 had been fired at, and entered the home stretch neck and neck, each 

 having 65 kills to his credit. Each killed the next 5 straight. King 

 missed his 81st and Messner his 83d. With 17 more birds to fire at, 

 the men buckled down to their work and the spectators followed 

 each shot with bated breath. King missed his 92d, but Messner kept 

 on bringing down his birds with a regularity that made him look like 

 a sure winner. King finished bis string one bird behicd, and Messner 

 got ready to pop at his last one. It was 10 to 1 that he would succeed. 

 Oo the word 'pull,' the trap was sprung. All eyes were on the pigeon 

 as it first looked one way and then the other, and finally, with stately 

 step, walked out of the trap and away from the shooter. Messner, 

 with not a tremor, his gun resting on his shoulder, his linger on the 

 trigger, watched the pigeon as it bowed its way into liberty. Under 

 the rules he was entitled to call for another bird, but he declined to 

 do so. When the bird had walked 2yds. away from the trap it sud- 

 denly darted into the air, skimmed about 18in. off the ground and shot 

 across the river toward Allegheny. Bang I bang ! went Messner's gun, 

 but beyond losing a few feathers the pigeon was safe. This lost the 

 race for Messner, and made the first match a tie." 



Trap score type— Copyright /»ss, by Forest and Stream Publishing Co. 

 24435553544125 42344341345 

 — »\1-»1^\TTT S S S 1 ? S 1 /"^ 'H\'^J' l-"> 

 A H King 2 21222221»22220212«22222 2—22 



2315432244532412522242343 

 1111»2212 2 12221201222222 0—22 

 1 454514 43415553241443344 



021222011.22122121202222 2-21 

 4422154324333513444311533 

 1222202212222212«122222a 2—23—88 

 4114221112344422352834352 

 J G Messner. ...111121111201112111221122 2-24 

 1441232525432234222441223 



/^-*t^/^-»-t T I T/" T-»-»«-T 



1 112012121110»2022212222 2—21 



1444441254251343353213421 

 2111022222201l2«12» 2 2220 2-20 

 24454243413 3 432242135413 2 

 ^TTw \->T->tT< — >->T-^- i ^^->il/ , ^^ 



2 2 2 2 2 21.2 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 0-23—88 



Boiling Springs Gun Club. 



Rutherford, N. J., Nov. 9 — The members of the Boiling Springs 

 Gun Club held their regular monthly club shoot this afternoon. The 

 weather was perfect in all its conditions, and some good scores was 

 made, as will be seen from the figures given below. The main event 

 was at 50 targets, the first 25 being at unknown angles, the last 25 at 

 reversed order. Scores: 



Club shoot, 50 targets, 25 unknown angles and 25 reversed order: 



McAlpin 01111111111111001101111111011111111011111111111111—46 



HUCk 11111111110111111111111110111101111111011111111100—44 



Collins 11111111101000001100111011111100111111111111110111—38 



Frank. . .... 11110011111101111111111111111111011000111111111101—42 



James 01101100111011110111111110011111111101111010010111—37 



Van Dyke 11111111101101111111111111111110111111111111011111—46 



Jeanneret 01111001110001110111011110111011111001101011101010—33 



Lenone 10110111111011111111111101111111100111100010111111—40 



Flaig 00000000100000100011000100U00000100110000000010000— 9 



Boland 01 3 0U001001 010100001 OOl 01 001000001 11011 110001 10010— 20 



Welles 10111111111111111111110111011101111011110111111111—44 



Marvin 10000001000000001100011001110100011101000010001101—18 



Imbert 100010lll100000000100000010000Ill(!0000000001000000-18 



Gladwin 1111 111111111111101 11 101 1 1 100011001110011 11 1111111 — 41 



Paul 00011111110111101111111110101101011111110111101011-38 



The following sweep3 were also shot off during the afternoon: 



Events: 13345678 Events: 1334567S 



McAlpin... 9 13 13 8 13 .. 14 9 Welles 11 12 



Van Dyke. 10 14 15 14 .. 15 .. .. Jeanneret 10 



Huck 8 13 8 14 14 .. 14 9 Gladwin 14 9 8 



Lenone.... 8 11 11 12 .. 11 10 8 Marvin 1111 7 



Collins 9 12 11 14 13 ..10 9 Paul 12 .. .. 



All events were at 15 birds, except Nos. 1 and 8, which were at 10 

 birds. W. H. Huck, Sec'y. 



Baltimore Trap-Shooters. 



Baltimore, Md., Nov. 7.— A live-bird shoot was held to-day on the 

 grouuds of the Baltimore Shooting Association, the occasion being the 

 first of a series of bi-weekly shoots arranged by the management for 

 the purpose of keeping the trap-shooters of this city together. As at 

 present arranged, a Maryland handicap will be shot off at 20 live 

 birds per man, $10 entrance, every second Thursday during the winter 

 months. The members are handicapped each time according to their 

 records. 



The birds to-day were a poor lot, having been kept in the coop since 

 the Du Pout shoot: stiU the shooters did not make great scores, as out 

 of the lot of duffers came now and then a corker that was able to beat 

 anybody. Bert Claridge killed his 20 straight, Bonday, Stanley and 

 Penrose scoring one less. Williar and Coe, the fourth men in the 

 Du Pont handicap, tied for third money on 18. The full score, with 

 the handicap of each man, runs as follows: 



Claridge (30) 22122212122112212212-20 



Bouday(26) 22220112111122111221-19 



Penrose (30) 12122112022121212221-19 



Stanley (26) 22221222202222222222—19 



Coe (2ft) 11222022121221111012—18 



Williar (27) 01111021211221111211—18 



Heiskelf (27) 21101212211122021012-17 



Ducker (30) 10111011002112222122—16 



Thomas (25) 1 1222202112122002102-16 



Malone (30) 01121011112110w —11 



Webster (28) 2022110101312w -11 



South Side's Saturday. 



Newark, N. J., Nov. 9.— We've heard of the Indian summer, but it 

 was with us for fair this afternoon. Who ever knew of a lot of shoot- 

 ers up here in the North that would rather, at such a season of the 

 year, sit around in their shirt sleeves than get up and shoot. But 

 such was the case to-day; Asa Whitehead wilted, while Charlie Hed- 

 don followed suit, Lem Thomas was also absent. Two new members 

 showed up, however— Messrs. Dawson and W. M, Smith. They 

 haven't quite caught on to the swift-thrown empires yet, but the 

 former improved his scores about 5055 and the latter did nearly as well. 

 On the team race, of course, centered the attraction, although there 

 were only eight in it. As said before, Asa Whitehead and Charlie 

 Heddon found the unprecedented heat too much for them, but in 

 order to give them something to keep tbem out of mischief they were 

 required to pick the teams. These teams, although each was com- 

 posed of only four shooters, made a little over a squad, Ike ^Terril 

 and Mr. Young being the two who shot together ; as the full squad were 

 only one point apart— 58 to 57— not a little interest was had in the 

 scores of these two. Young missed his first and sixth with howls 

 from the opposition ; Ike dropped his seventh and ninth, which made 

 things even. Then Young broke his next fifteen straight, which made 

 it look as though Charlie Heddon had a cinch. Mr. Young dropped 

 his twenty-second and last and the pair landed even, with Heddon 's 

 team one to the good, as the score shows 79 to 78. 



Regarding these Saturday shoots of the South Side Gun Club, they 

 have been a success from the start, and as indicated above the team 

 race is the principal attraction, The winning team have their targets 

 free, and the losers only pay for those shot by them— not for the win- 

 ners'. Thus all shooters get a rebate on targets shot above 25, and it 

 is the cheapest way of enjoying a half-day's shoot which is afforded 

 in the neighborhood. Again, there are no waits or standing around; 

 if you want to shoot you can keep your gun hot all the afternoon. 

 And the boys you meet— well, if you go once, you will go again and 

 often. Try it and see. 



Scores: 



Events: 13 3 4 5 6789 10 11 



Breintnall 6 6 10 8 9 



Couch V 6 8 8 8 7.... 8 8.. 



Hebbard 6 7 10 .. 8 7 .... 8 9 .. 



Clark 4 



Dawson 5 3.. .. 4 3 6 



Folsom 8 6 6 5 9 8 4 



Whitehead 10 9 . . 9 8 



WMSmith 4 7 .... 6 8 6 



Geoffroy 10 9 8 9 8 8 .... 10 



Hedden 7 



I H Terrill 4 



Team race: 



Whitehead's Team. 



Breintnall 1110101101011000111111111—18 



Hebbard 0111101111111101111111111—22 



Folsom 1100001111111011101111100-17 



I H Terrill 1111110101111110111101111-21—78 



Hedden's Team. 



Geoffroy 0111111111111111111111111—24 



Couch 1111011111101111111110111-88 



W M Smith 0010111111000011100010100—12 



Young 0111101111111111111110110-21—79 



Secretary. 



Meadville Gun Club. 



Meadville, Pa., Nov. 6.— Several of the members of the Meadville 

 Gun Club using Parker guns, six of them about August 1, challenged 

 the best six using other guns to a match team shoot. On August 14 

 they came together and shot two events of 25 targets each, the 

 Parkers scoring 118 in each event, the "other guns" 117 in the first and 

 115 in the second event, the Parkers beating by 4 in the aggregate. A 

 challenge by the "other guns" was decided to-day with the result of a 

 victory for the challengers by 14 breaks. The following is the score, 

 which is poor owing to the absence of some good shots. 



Team race, 50 targets per man, unknown angles: 



H A Johnson. lOllllOllllllllllOllllllllioillllllllllllOllllllll — 45 



Prenatt 10111111111001010011111111111111110011101111101110—39 



Lashells 1101 0000110110111000111011110001000111111110111111—88 



Ktider 11100111101010001101011101001111100110110010110011—30 



Gundaker. . . .10001001101000110100100010111110111110100001101010-25 



Hayes 101111101011110110101101011111l0000111111101110111-36-807 



Other Guns. 



Ehrgott . ...11111111111100110111111111111101111111111111111110-45 

 Affantranger.11001110011100011111111110111100101011101100111010— 33 

 Eeisinger.... 11101110111111111111111010100111110111111111001101-40 



Belton 11000100111111010001101110011111001110111111011011—33 



Smith 11101101011111111111101011111111111111101110111101-42 



Baker llOOlOIOOlllOlOOOlOOllllOOOlOlllllOllOOlllllOOlOlO— 28— 321 



Choke Bore. 



Shooting at Tremley Point. 



Tremley Point, N. J., Nov. 5.— The scores given below were made 

 to-day at Tremley Point. Ross, of Elizabeth, did good work, scoring 

 35 out of 36 birds; Batsch was second with 33 out of the same number, 

 Woodruff being third with 32 to his credit. A. L. Ivins and Phil Daly, 

 Jr , shot in only two events, Ivins killing his 17 straight, while Daly 

 scored 10 out of his 17. Scores: 



No. 1 * No. 8. No. 3. 



Woodruff 1210 -8 1111212111—10 1012282—6 



Batsch 1131—4 2221221220 - 9 2022222—6 



Folsom —0 2112212120— 9 2202210—5 



Boss 1111-4 1112111112—10 0111211—6 



Ivins 2121111211-10 1121121-7 



Daly 1121222221—10 1221102-6 



No. 4. No. 5. No. 4. No. 5. 



Woodruff.,1112111220- 9 21110—4 Folsom. i.. 2220100008— 5 00210 -2 



Batsch ....0212288822- 9 22222 -5 Ross 2111281312—10 13112-5 



* No. 1 was a miss-and-out. 



PUBLISHERS' DEPARTMENT. 



Maine Big Game. 



The Bangor & Aroostook Railroad has broken its last year's record 

 of game shipped during the month of October. That was a phenome- 

 nal record, including as it did 479 deer, 24 moose and 10 caribou. This 

 year, however, the record is away ahead, with 669 deer, 53 moose and 

 37 caribou. It is worth noting, too, that each one of these moose was 

 a bull, as it is against the law to kill cows and calves. 



The game was all shipped from but twenty railroad stations, giving 

 an average of over a deer a day from each station. 



Greenville, near Moosehead Lake, is the banner station, with a ship- 

 ment for the month of 185 deer, 16 moose and 9 caribou. Next on the 

 list comes Norcross, with 159 deer, 11 moose and 2 caribou. Oakfleld 

 shipped 12 moose, Sherman 5 and Schoodic 4. 



The record is all the more remarkable in view of the fact that many 

 deer are consumed in the woods for food. In addition to the game 

 noted, many partridges and three bears were shipped over the B. & A. 

 during the month. 



Park and Farm Fencing. 



Every spring the Page Woven Wire Fence Company, of Adrian, 

 Mich , has on hand immense quantities of wire fencing, the product 

 of their factory during the winter months. After the first orders 

 begin coming in it only takes a few weeks to deplete the reserve, and 

 after that it is a band to mouth struggle to meet the demand. When 

 the season began this year the company had on hand enough of their 

 product to fence the entire boundary fine between the United States 

 and Canada, as well as enough left over to apply to a considerable 

 length along the Mexican border. In less than two months, however, 

 there was not a rod left on hand, and subsequent orders had to wait 

 till they could be turned out by the factory. 



A New Grass Duck Shooting Blind. 



Mr. Frank Lawrence, the patron saint of duck shooters, has some- 

 thing new in the way of duck blinds. This is a marsh blind 3ft. high 

 and 7ft. long, made of woven grass, and very light. Suitable stakes 

 are provided with the blind, and it is only the work of a moment to 

 push these in the mud and arrange the blind. Sportsmen who have 

 wasted valuable time pottering around collecting wild rice and other 

 n aterials for blinds will appreciate Mr. Lawrence's device. 



Canvas Decoys. 



Light, convenient, durable and life-like decoys that can be folded 

 and carried in the pocket are advertised by Wm. Read & Sons, Boston, 

 Mass. A sample pair will be mailed for $1.25. 



ANSWERS TO CORRESPONDENTS. 



C. T., Denver, Col.— The powder is advertised in our columns. W* 

 should think that it might be used with good results, in the revolver. 



