May 34, 1888. J 



FOREST AND STREAM. 



3S3 



cultural Society of England, in which he described an inven- 

 tion of his for feeding fry, by keeping the food in constant 

 suspension, with drawings; also extracts from a letter from 

 Mr. K, I to, President of the Fisheries Society of Northern 

 Japan, together with the headings of the articles in the last 

 report of that Society. Col. Marshall McDonald read, by 

 title, a paper entitled ''Parallel between Agriculture and 

 Aquaculture In their Origin, Methods and Results." and the 

 aecretai'y read a letter from Mr. Seth Green announcing that 

 Jonathan Mason had succeeded in hatching the masealouge. 



Dr. W. M. Hudson moved that a committee be appointed 

 to draft a resolution of reuret at the. death of Prof. S. F. 

 Baird, and the president named Dr. Hudson, Dr. Sweeny, 

 and Mr, J. IT. Bissell as such committee. Later on they 

 reported the followiug, which was accepted by the Society: 



IS MEMORY OF SPENCER F. BAIRD, 



"Since the last meeting of this Society, onr associate, Prof. 

 Spencer F, Bait'd, United States Commissioner, has been re- 

 moved from the scene of his labors by death. This Society 

 hereby puts on record its appreciation of the great efficiency 

 and admirable administrative qualifications by which he- 

 caused the position of U. S. Commissioner to be regarded as 

 the first in the entire world, and mourns the loss of one who 

 by his lovable qualities had endeared himself to all who 

 came in contact with him. " 



Mr. Wm. Alden Smith, fish and game warden for the 

 State of Michigan, spoke on the Regulation of the Fisheries. 

 Mr. M. E. O'Brien read a paper on the breeding of natural 

 food for fry. Dr. J, C. Parker read a paper, prepared by a 

 friend of his, on the black bass, and their breeding habits. 

 Mr. Fred Mather announced that evidences of the success of 

 planting salmon iu the Hudson were accumulating, and 

 cited figures of the catch of different years. 



Mr. Otto Kirchner was on the programme for a paper on 

 "The Jurisdiction over the Waters between the Federal Gov- 

 ernment and the States," hut he was unavoidably absent and 

 the paper is promised for the report, The meeting then ad- 

 journed until the next day. In following issues we will give 

 a more detailed notice of the papers and of the discussions 

 which followed them. 



CONFERENCE OF FISH COMMISSIONERS. 



I J? compliance with a call from U. S, Fish Commissioner 

 Marshall McDonald, for the purpose of discussing plans 

 of co-operation, a meeting was held in a parlor of the Russell 

 House, Detroit; Mich., at 8 P. M., Tuesday, May 15. The 

 following States were represented by Commissioners: Con- 

 necticut, Dr. Wm. M. Hudson: Michigan, John H. Bissell 

 and Dr. J. C. Parker: Minnesota, Dr. Robert Ormsby 

 Sweeny; Nebraska, Wm. L. May: Ohio, Hon, C. V. Osborn 

 and A. C. Williams; Pennsylvania, Henry C. Ford. James 

 V. Long and VV, L Powell; Wisconsin, Philo Dunning: Ill- 

 inois. S. P. Bartlett. No Commissioner from New York 

 being present, Supt. Fred Mather was invited to attend the 

 conference, as was also Prof. D. S. Jordan and others. 



The convention was called to order by Mr. W. L. Mav, 

 President of the American Fisheries Society, who invited 

 U. S. Fish Commissioner McDonald to take the chair. Col. 

 McDonald said that it had struck him that concert of action 

 was necessary, and that only by all who had interests in 

 common pulling together, could the maximum results of 

 their work be attained, and if certain field work was mapped 

 out and eaeh State worked in unison with its neighbors we 

 would strengthen, instead of crippling each other. He dis- 

 claimed any intention of interfering in the work now being 

 carried on, and deemed it important that he should not 

 touch on ground which was completely covered by any of 

 the States, but wished to assist where such assistance was 

 needed. For instance, the work of propagating the shad, 

 which extends along the Atlantic coast and does not 

 confine itself to State lines, can best be done by the 

 United States, with its corps of experts and extensive 

 appliances, than by single States, and greater results 

 might be obtained at a less expenditure than under in- 

 dividual effort. State co-operation in theory is light, but 

 practically it cannot well be carried out ; for there will be 

 contention, more or less, and the regulations of pne State, 

 and its restrictions on an inter-State river, will be counter- 

 acted by other bordering or neighboring States. The same 

 can be said of the whitefish work on the great lakes, al- 

 though the latter fish are more local than the shad. The 

 assumption of this work by the general Government would 

 relieve the States of this burden and reserve a portion of 

 their appropriations for other fields of labor, in their inland 

 lakes and streams. If Ohio engages in the propagation of 

 whitetish, a portion of the result goes to the States of Michi- 

 gan and Pennsylvania, and the breeding of salmon in Yukon 

 benefits the whole Pacific coast down to the Sacramento. 

 The work of the United States Commission is to increase the 

 food fishes of the country and only incidentally to increase 

 those species which are valued by sportsmen. To this end 

 he would have centers of distribution established and let the 

 general Government bear the expense of these, and hence he 

 had asked the Commissioners to meet- him and confer with a 

 view of understanding what fields the States wish to work 

 in. As a result of the introduction of the German carp, of 

 which sixty specimens were imported ten years ago, 10,000,- 

 OOOlbs. have been produced, making an increase of food to 

 the amount of $500,000, mainly in waters where no food of 

 any kind was produced before. 



Mr. Powell agreed with Col. McDonald in his remarks 

 about the shad, it is indeed a great field, and would call 

 attention to the fact that the Susquehanna River has four 

 hundred miles of water, and the Pennsylvania Commission 

 has its hands full and will be glad to co-operate. In that 

 river they have abolished the destructive fish baskets and 

 weirs, but there are fourteen miles of the river which lie 

 within the borders of Maryland where these engines are still 

 permitted, and there it is almost completely dammed with 

 them, and they destroy even the young shad and other fishes 

 which have been planted at great expense. In Maryland 

 these traps are licensed and it would be a step in advance if 

 that State could be brought to co-operate. If Pennsylvania 

 protects 400 miles of the river Maryland should certainly 

 take care of fourteen. 



Dr. Sweeny was of the opinion that if the United States 

 should recommend to Maryland to abolish these traps, and 

 all the State Commissioners should join in such a request, 

 it would have great weight. We might, perhaps, through 

 Congress, accomplish great results, not only in this case but 

 in similar ones. 



Col. McDonald called attention to the fact that Dr. Sweeny 

 knew the usual course in such matters: they are referred 

 to a committee, which is usually composed of members who 

 have an interest in these things that we want to get rid of, 

 and but few members will support such action as is desired. 

 What is true of the Susquehanna is also trueof other rivers, 

 and it is doubtful if State cooperation can be made to influ- 

 ence legislation to any great degree. Get recognition by 

 Congress of the right to control interstate waters, first 

 through the Legislatures of States, and we may in time 

 secure such laws as will benefit all; until that is done these 

 questions will remain unsettled. If the States will unite 

 the matter may be simple. It has been charged that Massa- 

 chusetts stocked the Connecticut River with salmon and 

 that the State of Connecticut caught them all, and the work 

 was stepped, and now there are no salmon there. These 

 States have, had a quarrel over this. 



Dr. Hudson wished to correct a misapprehension in regard 

 to this latter statement. As a matter of fact in 1874 Massa- 

 chusetts, Connecticut, and New Hampshire combined to 

 stock the river, Massachusetts had previously stocked the 

 Merrimac with salmon, but under the combined action 



1 .100,000 sal mon were planted. In 1M he went to the Legis- 

 hifure to beg for a law to protect them, but aid not succeed. 

 The interests of the shad fishermen were too strong. New 

 x ork lish dealers were offering a dollar a pound for Connec- 

 ticut salmon, and a ten pound salmon was too great a prize 

 to return so the water, besides, they were caught in gill-nets 

 and were usually dead. He wished to correct the impression 

 that Massachusetts did all the planting. As to co-operation 

 he agreed with Col. McDonald in the policy he had outlined, 

 and t hat the salmon and shad work, as wed as the exchange 

 of foreign fishes, should all belong to the United States. He 

 had thought that out of an appropriation of $250,000 the ex- 

 penditure of #200,000 in purely scientific work was too great 

 a proportion, and although iu favor of sea souudingaud the 

 investigation of marine life, both large and small, there 

 should be a more equitable division of the expenditures. If 

 the United States is to assume the work of the cultute of 

 shad, whitefish; carp, etc., more money will be required for 

 fishculture. Shad in Connecticut are diminishing, although 

 we plant, but we cannot sas 7 why this is so. nor why some 

 I'ivers have plenty in some seasons and others but few. If 

 the U. S. takes this in hand it will be for the benefit of all, 

 as with its vast machinery it can operate to greater advan- 

 tage and at less expense. The distribution of trout and black 

 bass had better be done by the States. Another thing, 

 although not so important, is the confusion which is caused 

 by the continual change of the scientific, names of fishes. 

 Once we knew the small-mouth black bass as Orystcs nigri- 

 cans, then it became Microptoms xahiioiilcs, and now it is 

 M.dnlnmAcu. The shad was Alosa presPtMUx, now it is 

 Clv.pco mpixlifisinia, and this is continually going on until 

 we can't say where it will end. 



Prof. D, S. Jordan arose and said that perhaps he had been 

 as great a sinner in this respect, but that there had been 

 much confusion aud it was necessary that we get back to 

 the places of departure and will soon strike bottom. A new 

 edition of his Manual of the Vertebrates will soon be issued 

 and in that there will be much that is new and he has tried 

 to strike bottom. He cited examples of carelessness in early 

 writers which has led to this contusion. 



Dr. Hudson asked if all the shad work should be taken up 

 by the U. S. would work be done on all the rivers. 



Col. McDonald replied that the Government might not go 

 on all the rivers to take eggs but there would lie bases of 

 supplies from which distributions would be made. He might 

 be afraid to touch Connecticut unless Dr. Hudson should 

 ask him to do so. 



Dr. Hudson related that the people of Connecticut felt sure 

 that no shad equalled that of their own rivers, and that once 

 when some fry of southern shad were introduced there the 

 people complained that they were inferior fish and would 

 produce mongrels, but he had assured them that the species 

 was the same and that any shad introduced in their river 

 would be true Connecticut river shad, when grown. 



Col. McDonald said that he would get t wo hundred million 

 shad eggs this year, and at a less cost than fifteen million 

 were formerly obtained. He had recently had sent him a 

 9lb. shad from the Potomac river and doubted if Connecticut 

 could beat that. On the Pacific coast there had been objec- 

 tions raised to the planting of salmon from the Clackamas 

 river, in other streams, but they were the same fish. 



Mr. Mather said that on all the northern rivers people 

 thought their own shad the best, probably because they get 

 them fresher. He had hatched shad on most of the rivers 

 from Virginia to Connecticut and eaten the shad fresh from 

 them, and had seen as good shad from the Chesapeake, the 

 Pamunky, and the Potomac, as from the Delaware, the 

 Hudson, and the Connecticut. He would say, however, that 

 the shad of Florida do not compare with those of the rivers 

 named. 



Col. McDonald stated that there were two races of shad, if 

 not distinct species, on the Atlantic coast. South from 

 Albemarle the great bulk of the shad have black tips to 

 their tins, while north of that region they rarely have 

 it, and these black-tips are not as good as the more 

 northern race. He did not think that shad go into the St. 

 Johns river to spawn. 



Mr. Bartlett thought that this proposition to take a share 

 of the burden from the States, thereby relieving them of a 

 portion of the expenditure, was one that certainly should 

 meet with no objection from the States. He was glad to see 

 that the U. S. Fish Commission was about to assume that 

 portion of the work which naturally belonged to it. It was 

 a fact that in his State (Hlinois), and in other States border- 

 ing on the Great Lakes, there had been a feeling of hostility 

 to the U. S. Commisson. One of the Commissioners of his 

 State had taken the ground that the Eastern States alone 

 were benefitted, and it took a long time to convince, him to 

 the contrary, and that Hlinois had received something from 

 the appropriations of the general Government, and that the 

 State had not been entirely forgotten. This meeting is a 

 most important one and if it results in a concert of actioD, 

 such as has been outlined here this evening, it will be per- 

 haps one of the most important events which has taken place 

 in fishculture. If Col. McDonald will give an outline of the 

 work, Illinois will back him, for while we appreciate what 

 has been done in the past, we feel confident that the work of 

 fishculture will be advanced through this conference. 



Col. McDonald replied that he was not a vare that injustice 

 had ever been done to any State jn the matter of fishculture, 

 or that any unfair discrimination had been made. Fish- 

 culture in America, as conducted by States, had its origin 

 in the New England States, and the people of those States 

 were first to appreciate its advantages and had hatching 

 stations and experienced men, two great advantages wfiich 

 the U. S. Commission naturally availed itself of. The work 

 was consequently begun where not only public sentiment 

 called for it, but where trained men, who had the necessary 

 practical experience in the manipulation of fish and their 

 eggs, could be found. Therefore, when it was found that 

 there were three hatcheries in Maine, one in Massachusetts, 

 one in New York, aud one in Virginia, it was at these places 

 that the Government looked for both appreciation of its 

 work and the assistants to do it. To such States as have no 

 hatching houses, or Fish Commissions with appropriations 

 to work with, the U. S. can only send carp, or a few trout, as 

 may be suited to the character of their waters. Stations of 

 distribution should be established for different fishes to 

 which eggs could be sent from the place where they are 

 gathered; for instance, the cut-throat trout of the Rocky 

 Mountains will be found to be deserving of wide distribu- 

 tion, it is a more desirable fish than the rainbow trout, and 

 Colorado should have a station where the eggs can be pro- 

 cured aud distributed to the different States which have 

 suitable waters and hatcheries, and then the State Commis- 

 sioners can plant the fish in 'such waters as may be chosen. 

 In the Southwest a different class of work is needed, there 

 are no trout streams and only such fish as will thrive in 

 warm waters are useful, and stations for breeding the better 

 kinds of this class of fishes could be established all through 

 that region. In the Mississippi river the fishes which are 

 left in the pools after an overflow in the spring of the year, 

 and which will perish in summer wheu those pools are dry, 

 could be gathered, the valuable species selected, and plants 

 of them could be made where they would have a chauce for 

 life. The U. S. Fish Commission has railroad cars adapted 

 for this work, which will come during the two or three 

 months in which these cars are now idle, and this is second 

 to no other work in importance. As it is there are countless 

 millions of fish lost every year through the overflow of the 

 Mississippi river, and we can do effective work in saving 

 them. 



Mr. Bartlett agreed with Col. McDonald. This saving of 

 fish was a most important work. He had seen six bushels 



of solid young fish hauled from a pool where they would 

 have perished as soon as dry weather came, and he had done 

 much work in the direction of saving these fish from de- 

 struction by planting them where they had a chance for 

 their lives. It is not necessary that black bass should have 

 running water. At Lanesville the railroad company built 

 a reservoir which was supplied by tile drains from the neigh- 

 boring laud and in 18S2, or '83, the Illinois Commission 

 placed bass and croppies in it, none of the fish exceeding four 

 inches in length. The last summer was very dry and it was 

 feared that the fish might die from the drought; men were 

 sent with nets to take out the fish, and save them to plant 

 elsewhere, and some of the bass weighed four pounds and 

 some of the croppies were nearly two pounds in weight. 

 There is no doubt whatever that the saving of fish which 

 have reached an age of from six months to two years is as 

 important as any work undertaken by the fishculturist. 



Mr. Bissell wished to call attention to the legal aspect of 

 the proposed regulation of the fisheries by the General Gov- 

 ernment. A committee of the American Fisheries Society, 

 now in session in this city, has invited Mr. Otto Kirchner to 

 prepare a paper on this subject, but Mr. Kirchner had been 

 called away, and his paper will appear in the next report of 

 that society. The title of that paper was, "The Jurisdiction 

 over the Waters between the Federal Government and the 

 States," and covered the whole question. He had also paid 

 some attention to the subject and had examined decisions of 

 the Supreme Court in cases where the jurisdiction was dis- 

 puted, and, as it stands now, the decision of the Supreme 

 Court is that the jurisdiction over the waters resides in the 

 States within whose borders those waters lie. Therefore, co- 

 operation between the States, as has been suggested, is im- 

 practicable. It would not be valid for the States bordering 

 on the Great Lakes to cede them to the United States; such 

 action would, before it could become a law, require an 

 amendment to the Constitution. It would, no doubt, be of 

 great advantage; but, as the case now stands, it is impossible 

 to get a law to regulate the fisheries from Duluth to the St. 

 Lawrence River. The herring fishermen want small meshed 

 nets, while the men who plant and catch whitefish want 

 larger meshes, in order that the half-grown fishes, in which 

 they arc interested, may escape and reach maturity; and the 

 State which makes a law to regulate either of these interests 

 should provide for its enforcement. Possibly it may be best 

 to turn over all the work of hatching the whitefish to the 

 United States. In the work of propagating shad and salmon 

 there are conditions which differ from the whitefish work; 

 but as Col. McDonald has manifested a desire for a broad 

 policy in fishculture, whatever he does Michigan will 

 second. 



Col. McDonald said that it was his opinion that the States 

 should retain control of the hatcheries; the United States 

 might collect the eggs in such work as the salmon, shad 

 and whitefish, aud relieve the States of the burden, and, by 

 the concentration of the work, thus get larger return from 

 it than is possible under the present system. The work, as 

 it has been carried on by the States, has been in a sort of 

 desultory manner, without regard to what was being done 

 in the other States which had common interests with them- 

 selves. 



Col. McDonald said that he would like to hear from New 

 York, aud Mr. BisseU remarked that it would be in order to 

 hear New York when she had done some work in Lake On- 

 tario. 



Mr. Mather explained that as he was not one of the Com- 

 missioners of New York, merely one of the superintendents, 

 he did not desire to discuss the policy of his superior officers. 

 If fishculture could be conducted on a broader basis, i. e., 

 with the idea of increasing the food of the people in both the 

 fresh and salt waters of his State, or in any other, he was in 

 hearty sympathy with it; but in his position he had re- 

 mained silent throughout the discussion, because it was not 

 his place to reply to the criticisms on the work in his State. 

 He regretted that none of the Commissioners of New York 

 were present to defend their policy of confining themselves 

 mainly to trout culture, which he had heard assailed, in 

 private, during the meeting of the Fisheries Society, but, as 

 he had said, this was not a matter for him to discuss. He 

 had made efforts, which he believed were appreciated by seme 

 of the Commissioners of his State, to increase the supply of 

 smelts and such salt-water fishes as cod, tomcod and black- 

 fish, and of putting fishculture on the broad ground of an 

 industry for producing food, letting sport be incidental, and 

 in this had done something in the way of experimenting 

 with whitefish on Long Island and in Putnam county, N. Y. 

 Besides being a Superintendent of the N. Y. Commission 

 since 1883, he had been longer in the service of the U. S. 

 Commission as an assistant in charge of foreign exchanges 

 since 1873, and since that time had traveled extensively 

 among the fishculturists, not only of America but of Europe, 

 and while powerless to promise cooperation on the part of 

 his State, he was personally practicing it in his dual capac- 

 ity, and was stocking the Hudson with salmon, on account 

 of the U. S. F. C. Why Lake Ontario does not receive the 

 attention that Mr. Bissell thinks it should, he could not 

 answer, nor why his State was not represented by one of its 

 five Commissioners. One of the latter, Mr. Blackford, was 

 at present in the Adirondacks, another, Mr. R. U. Sherman, 

 was ill, and as none of them had authorized the speaker to 

 represent his State, he was present merely as <m invited 

 guest. 



Dr. Parker said that in his opinion it would be well if the 

 Government should secure a water frontage of two or three 

 miles, in some selected place, and dredge it and note the 

 contents of the dredges, next year plant whitefish and see 

 what the results are in the following year. 



Dr. Sweeny called attention to the fact that the best places 

 to plant young whitefish w r ere not always the best in which 

 to catch the adults, and that there was no certainty of the 

 fish remaining on the grounds of this water frontage. 



Col. McDonald believed that statistics were needed of the 

 entire production of the Great Lakes. We are not certain 

 that whitefish are not sufficiently localized to enable us to 

 follow Dr. Parker's recommendation, but, with full statis- 

 tics in our possession we could have a firmer base to work on. 

 Along the rivers of the Atlantic coast we have not only ar- 

 rested the decline in the shad fisheries but have increased it 

 to the value of over $300,000 in 18S7^ and what has been done 

 with shad can be done with whitetish. Our great object is 

 to produce food, and if we can add to the products of the 

 country a million pounds of anything that can be eaten, it 

 is of great value. As said before, sixty carp introduced 

 from Germany ten years ago has since produced five mil- 

 lions of pounds of food. But, to return to the question; is 

 it possible to get the co-operation of the States which border 

 on the Great Lakes? 



Mr. Bissell stated that efforts in this direction had been 

 made, and of this he would treat in a paper which he would 

 read before .the Fisheries Society to-morrow. There was 

 much that has been said here to-night which might appear 

 like repetition in his paper on co-operation, but, as he had 

 given much time to the consideration of this subject, he 

 would read the paper as written, He thought co-operation 

 possible only in a limited degree, and did not see how the 

 Great Lakes were to be brought under a single jurisdiction. 

 The fisheries of the Lakes are improving, especially in lakes 

 Huron and Michigan, which show an increase both in num- 

 bers and iu the size of the fish, and after several seasons of 

 gradual diminution, we are getting back to catches of years 

 ago. 



Dr. Sweeny had noticed that when the hatching operations 

 were begun the fishermen were incredulous and ridiculed 

 the attempts to increase the fishes of the Lakes, but they are 

 now satisfied that we have done good work and offer to assist 



