284 



FOREST AND STREAM. 



[Oct. 31, 1889. 



PATTERN AND PENETRATION. 



Editor Forest and Stream: 



I have taken much pleasure in watching the gradual 

 piling up of facts in your shotgun tests, and have been 

 busy reducing your crude figures of results to the only 

 true basis of comparison, that of percentage of shot 

 accounted for out of shot fired, and I have come to sev- 

 eral conclusions: First, it seems to pay to pub plenty of 

 charge in a gun. Second, that black powd'-r is, after all, 

 the most reliable explosive, and that wood and Schultze 

 powder are not what glowing advertisements would make 

 them out to be. Third, that it does not pay to buy a cheap 

 gun, nor, on the other hand, does it seem necessary to 

 run to the other extreme and get the most expensive 

 weapon offered. Fourth, that there seems to be a good 

 deal of ignorance on the part of gunuiakers when they 

 play the role of gun loaders. 



I have made tables of the results, and have separated 

 for ready comparison the gauges one from another. The 

 Remington 16-gauge is still solitary in its class, with the 

 white powder a poor second to the black powder at both 

 of your test ranges. I had hoped to see some response or 

 explanation from the white powder makers on this ex- 

 hibit, but have watched in vain. Perhaps expert Grif- 

 fith, of the English Schultze range, can draw from the 

 funds of his vast experience as a gun tester and enlighten 

 us on this point. 



Table of Patterns. 



40tds. range. 



Right Barrel. Left Barrel. Whole Gun. 



Charge. Pellets. FT ct.'pellets. Prct. Pellets. Pr ct. 



Rem. 16 (Sch. Pdr.) mi 



Rem. 16 (Bl. Pdr.) 367 



Parker 12 (1st test) 546 



Parker 12 (&1 test) 5H6 



Colt 12 (Merrill) 570 



Colt 12 (Moss) 570 



Greener 12 (liner. Cart.) 376 

 Folsom 12 (line: Curt.).. 376 

 L. C. Smi'h l2(ETi«.en).376 

 Greenei-12 (Am. Gait.;. 560 

 Folsom 12 (Am. Cart.).. 560 

 L. C. smith 12 (Ain.crt.) 560 



Folsom 12 433 



L.C. Smith 12 ( VV'd Pdr.)501 



Winchester 12 514 



Colt 12 (Brass shell) 569 



Colt 13 (Paper shed) 418 



Parker 10 (1st test) 595 



Parker 10 (21 tesi) 535 



Greener l'J (SUbtt) 8 shot.517 



J-olsomlO 490 



Winchester 10 512 



Coltl0(3rass shell) 551 



Colt 10 (Paper shell) 542 



Greener 10 (Such), 7 shot377 



Scott 10 (Sch.), 6 shot. . ..274 

 Folsom 10 (Sch.). 6 shot.,271 

 Scott 10 (Black). 6 shot.. 273 

 Folsom 10 (Black), 6 shot273 



Greener 10 (Such), 1 shotl07 



60yds. range. 



21 y 



44.7 



239 



48.8 



329 



46.8 



240 



65.3 



205 



55.8 



232 



60.5 



371 



67.9 



254 



64.8 



363 



66.3 



364 



67.9 



365 



68 0 



364 



67 9 



237 



41.5 



278 



48.7 



257 



45.0 



274 



48.0 



293 



51.3 



283 



49.6 



229 



60.1 



220 



58.fi 



225 



59.9 



117 



31.1 



93 



24.7 



105 



27.9 



161 



42.8 



187 



49.7 



174 



46.3 



318 



631 



315 



61.6 



346 



61.9 



168 



28.9 



166 



28.5 



167 



28.7 



221 



39.7 



266 



47.5 



243 



43.6 



187 



43.2 



162 



37.5 



174 



40.3 



266 



53.0 



251 



50.1 



258 



51.5 











338 



65.7 



880 



ma 



355 



63.3 



368 



64.5 



307 



73.6 



267 



63.8 



287 



6S.7 



432 



73.6 



436 



71.5 



429 



73.0 



326 



60.9 



S88 



72.5 



357 



60.7 



853 



69.2 



359 



69.2 



358 



69.2 



170 



34.8 



178 



36.3 



174 



35.5 











334 



65.2 



368 



eiu 



345 



62/2 



357 



64.3 



367 



67.7 



339 



62.5 



353 



65.6 



258 



68.4 



257 



48.4 



257 



68.4 



81 



29.5 



69 



351 



75 



26.7 



43 



15.6 



107 



39.0 



75 



27.3 



113 



41.3 



108 



39,5 



110 



40.4 



108 



39.5 



108 



39.5 



100 



39.5 



70 



65.4 



79 



73.8 



75 



69.6 



Rem. 16 (Sch. Pdr.)., 

 Rem. 16 (Bin. Pdr.).. 



..489 

 ..367 



102 



20.8 



100 



20.4 



101 



20.6 



105 



28.6 



94 



35.6 



100 



27.1 



160 



29.3 



189 



34.6 



175 



31.9 

 30.4 



151 



28.1 



176 



32.8 



163 



103 



18.0 



90 



15.7 



96 



16.6 



Si 



15.9 



114 



20.0 



97 



17.9 



80 



21.2 



108 



28.7 



94 



24.9 



47 



12.5 



48 



12.6 



48 



12.6 



75 



19.9 



37 



09.8 



56 



14.8 



133 



23.3 



115 



20.5 



124 



21.9 



47 



0S.3 



56 



10.0 



53 



Ofi.U 



97 



17.3 



105 



18.7 



101 



18.0 



82 



18.9 



74 



17.1 



78 



18.0 



70 



13.9 



90 



17,9 



80 



15.9 











196 



381 



isi 



3L8 



183 





182 



31.8 



135 



29.9 



139 



33.3 



133 



31.5 



214 



35.8 



224 



37.6 



219 



36.7 



181 



33.8 



178 



33.2 



179 



33.5 



166 



32.1 



162 



32.0 



164 



32.0 



53 



10.8 



55 



11.3 



54 



11.0 











190 



37.1 



159 



28.7 



ies 



39.7 



163 



29.2 



172 



31.7 



191 



35.3 



181 



33.4 



70 



15.2 



76 



16.5 



73 



15.8 



120 



31.8 



136 



33.4 



123 



32.6 



52 



18.9 



54 



19.7 



53 



19.3 

 14.3 



24 



08.9 



54 



19.7 



39 



55 



20.1 



6-3 



23.0 



59 



21.5 



40 



14.9 



35 



12.8 



37 



13.8 



88 



32.2 



71 



26.0 



79 



29.1 



34 



31.7 



33 



30.8 



34 



31.2 



Parker 12 (1st test) 546 



Parker 13 (2d test) 536 



Colt 12 (Merrill; 570 



Colt 12 (Moss) 570 



Greener 12 (bhig. Cart.). 376 

 Folsom 12 (liner. Cart.). .376 

 L C Smith 12 (Eng. Cart)376 

 Greener 12 (Am. Cart.). 560 

 Folsom 12 (Am Cart.). .560 

 L.C. Smith (Am. Cart.).560 



Folsom 12 433 



L. C. Smith (Wood Pdr.)501 



Winchester 12 514 



Colt 12 (Brass shell) 569 



Colt 12 (Paper shell) 418 



Parker 10 (1st test) 595 



Parker 10 (2d test) 535 



Greener 10 (Such), 8 shotM7 



Folsom 10 490 



Winchester 10 512 



Colt 10 (Brass shell) 554 



Colt 10 (Paper shell). . . .543 



Greener 10 (Mead ) 7 shoU 60 

 Greener 10 (Such), 7 shot377 



Scott 10 (Sch.), 6 shot. . .274 

 Folsom 10 (-eh.;, 6 shot. 274 

 Scott 10 (Blk.), 6 shot.. .273 

 Folsom 10 (Blk.), 6 sjol.273 

 Greener 10 (Mead), 6shoL274 



Greener 10 (Such), 1 shotl07 



Now, of the 12-gauges with No. 8 shot, there is quite a 

 line of them, and with the Colt showing the best percent- 

 age, and this curiously enough not with the cartridge 

 selected by the Colt Company, but with the cartridge 

 from a gun shop stock and taken to the range by your 

 gun man. I doubt, however, from your figures, whether 

 you are ri$ht in saying that No. 8 shot were in those 

 paper shell Toads; 60lgrs. of weight with a count of 418 

 pellets is hardly a correct tally for No. 8 shot. 



Among the 10-gauge guns at 40yds. which were, I 

 think, misloaded with No. 8 shot, the Parker gun still 

 has the advantage, but taking the average of the two 

 tests of that Parker gun it falls below the average 

 made in the one test of the Greener gun submitted by 

 Mr. Such. Again there comes a black eye to the Schultze 

 powder when the No. 6 shot list is struck, and both the 

 Scott and Folsom guns refuse to show good results with 

 the white, smokeless powder. 



That Greener gun of Mr. Such was a fine weapon, with 

 an average of over 69 per cent, out of three varying shot 

 sizes at 40yds. That is what one might call a capital all- 

 round gun. 



Coming to the GOyds. distance, the Winchester heavies 

 seemed to jump to the front of their respective classes, 

 and particularly was this seen with the 12-gauge arm. 

 This may explain why it is that this heavy, hard-hitting 

 piece is such a favorite in the AVest, where long shots are 

 more the fashion than with our Eastern men in the field. 

 It may be the effect of careful loading, as it will be noted 

 that in each case where the armory experts came down 

 to work the weapons capital results were reached, as for 

 instance the Parker, Colt and Winchester arms. What 

 there is in a proper load is well shown in the case of the 

 Greener of Mr. Mead, which with a load of No. 7 shot 

 taken from an old Chamberlin stock got 15 per cent, at 

 60yds., while with your black powder charges remaining 

 over from the Scott trial 29 per cent, is reached. 



So much for the pattern test, which to so many is all 

 that is thought necessary in trying a gun; but looking at 

 the penetration figures the importance of proper charges 

 is brought out strongly. Look at your L. C. Smith gun, 

 showing, for instance, how it jumps as soon as a black 

 powder cartridge is put in compared with a wood powder 

 popgun charge, especially at 60yds. distance. The heavy 

 shot shows up finely at this part of your elaborate tests, 

 while so far as hitting hard is concerned it is hard to see 

 what advantage there is in a heavy 10-gauge gun over a 

 lighter 12-gauge, or even a 16-gauge for that matter. If 

 I may be allowed the expression, it is all nonsense to 

 shoot No. 8 shot out of a 10-gauge barrel, and the only 

 reason so many of these charges are seen, I suppose, 

 is because of the trap- shooters' influence and the desire 

 of the gun concerns to catch their trade. It ought to he 

 strongly borne in mind by those who read your reports 

 and take them as a guide in gun buying, that if they are 

 of the trap-circuit-purse-grabbing class, trained to hold 

 close and fire quick after they have got the gun to the 

 shoulder and shouted pull ! then they want a closely 

 choked gun, capable of blowing to smithereens anything 

 within that terrible volley of hard shot; but if game is 

 the object of the shooter, then a weapon and charge which 

 will put 180 pellets into the circle at 40yds. will kill quite 

 often enough and not give game mincemeat to carry home 

 either. 



THE PENETRATION RECORD. 











40yds. 



60yds. 



Chai 



ge. 







Riccht Left 



Right Left 





Propor- 



bar. 



bar. 



bar. 



bar. 



Gun. Pdr. Shot. 



tion. 



Sheets. 



Sheets. 



Remington 16 (Sch. Pdr.). 37 



492 



1 to 13U 10 



11 



4 



4 



Remington 16 (Black Pdr) 71 



423 



lto 



6 



22 



17 



8 



7 



Parker 13 (1st test) 90 



529 



lto 



rf 



\ 20 



19 



10 



9 



Parker 12 (2d test) 107 



564 



lto 





? 14 



16 



9 



8 



Colt 12 (Merrill) 98 



545 



1 to 



5> 



. 14 



13 



5 



5 



Colt 13 (Moss) 98 



545 



lto 



;V, 



i 12 



13 



6 



7 



Greener 12 (Eng. Cart.)... 91 



604 



lto 



6! 



; it 



16 



10 



8 



Folsom 12 (Eng. Cart.). ... 91 



604 



1 to 



(;>.< 



s 16 



13 



10 



5 



L C. Smith 12 (Eng. Cart) bl 



604 



lto 



tii 



a 18 



31 



11 





Greener 12 (Am. dart.).... 89 



610 



1 to 



6? 



\ 15 



13 



6 



5 



Folsom 13 (Am. Cart.).... 89 



610 



1 to 



K\ 



i 9 



10 



7 



9 



L. C. Smith 12 (Am. Cart). 89 



610 



1 to 





5 U 



14 



6 



6 



Folsom 12 91 



487 



1 to 





i 13 



12 



5 



7 



L. C. Smith (Wood Pdr.,).. 40 



548 



1 to 13% 



i 9 



10 





4 



Winchester i2 (single bar.) 91 



545 



1 to 



6 



15 





7 



Colt 12 (Brass shell). 81 



606 



lto 



m it 



13 







Colt 12 (Paper shell) 97 



482 



lto 



5 



16 



17 



7 



§ * 



Parker 10 (1st tesi) 132 



576 



1 to 



4? 



i 18 



16 



9 



10 



Parker 10 (2d test) 125 



559 



lto 



Vy 



3 17 



14 



9 



8 



Greener 10 ^Such) No 8 sht.109 



547 



1 to 



5 



17 



15 



8 



9 



Folsom 10 101 



553 



lto 



5V£ 10 



11 



9 



7 



Winchester 10 (single bar.) 98 



554 



1 to 



m u 





9 



Colt 10 (Brass shell) 99 



591 



lto 



6 



15 



15 



8 



7 



Colt 10 (Paper shell) 119 



601 



lto 



5 



16 



16 



7 





Greener 10(Mead) No 7 sht.122 



596 



1 to 









10 



10 



Greener 10 (Such) No 7 sht.109 



548 



1 to 



t 



S 20 



31 



12 



13 



Scott 10 (Sch Pdr) No 6 sht 60 



588 



lto 





£ 33 



27 



19 



18 



Folsom 10 (Sch Pdr) 6 shot 60 



588 



1 to 



It 





28 







Scott 10 (Bl k Pd r) No 6 sht.132 



581 



1 to 





i 38 



26 



i6 



17 



Folsom 10 (Blk Pdr) Bsbot.132 



581 



1 to 





[ 22 



22 



15 



12 



Greener 10 (Mead) 1 shot.. 132 



581 



1 to 









16 



13 



Greener (10 Such) No 1 sht.127 



664 



1 to 



m « 



43 



21 



25 



There is one thing that has surprised me in the order of 

 the tests. Why is it that we have not had such guns as 

 the Daly, Lefever, Ithaca, Pieper, Davis, Spencer, Rem- 

 ington and Whitney out for trial, is it that their makers 

 lack the public spirit to put their guns before the shoot- 

 ing world on their merits or do they prefer to claim 

 everything in nicely worded announcements and cata- 

 logues and not risk such a leveling democratic gauging 

 table as your test rest seems to be. The L. C. Smith gun, 

 for one which has such an enviable record at the several 

 trap shoots, makes a very bad showing. When the per- 

 centage touch stone is applied I should think that the 

 Syracuse shop could turn out an arm which could if need 

 be put 90 per cent, of the charge in a 10m. circle. I have 

 heard of such arms but 1 never wish to shoot one. 



Nick. 



[Our correspondent's careful study of the results reached 

 in the several tests already made present the figures in a 

 new phrase, and the deadly parallel is nowhere, compared 

 with his columns of percentages. We fully agree that 

 readers should discriminate in looking over the results 

 and in studying the loads whether they wish to get the 

 best results in the brush or whether trap scores are to be 

 striven for A word to our correspondent anent the pur- 

 pose and scope of our tests, and not to him alone, but to 

 others who have written. The screen is a fixture, and we 

 shall go on shooting and reaching results as opportunity 

 may offer. When we were ready to open operations in 

 March last we sent the following circular to all the gun- 

 making firms in this country, and it was in response co it 

 that some have come and that all the remainder are 

 expected: 



.Dear Sir— Forest and Stream proposes to open its new gun- 

 testing screen on the grounds of the Suburban Shooting Associa- 

 tion at Claremont, N. J., by a general trial of shotguns for pattern 

 and penetration. It is intended to include in this comparative test 

 all the reliable double and repeating shotguns now upoa the 

 American market. The shooting will be at 40 and 60yds., 5 shots, 

 at rest, from each barrel at each range, and each shot will be at 

 once a test for pattern in a fixed SOin. circle, and for penetration 

 in a Dennison pad placed behind the center of the pattern sheer. 

 In addition three shots per barrel at each range will he fired at a 

 sheet 4ft. square, and a circle of 30in. diameter will be struck 

 from any desired center to include the greatest number of pellet 

 marks. This latter test will be an exhibit of maximum pattern 

 independent of an irregularity of aim on the part, of the shooter! 



You are invited to submit a gun of either 10 or 12-gauge, which 

 you would consider a model gun of your make. Such a gun, for 

 instance, as you would send to a customer a ; king tor the all-round 

 gun you would most recommend. You will send also cartridges 

 not to exceed three sets, loaded ia such charges and manner as 

 you would recommend for such weapon. It will require at least 

 25 cartridges of each sort per barrel for the complete test, as in 

 all cases live loaded cartridges will be taken bv Forest and 

 Stream for analysis by weight, count and measure of shot and 

 powder in our office laboratory. The weather conditions during 

 each test will be carefully noted and ail the details and averages 

 published at length in our columns. 



It is desired that each gun company shall submit a gun direct 

 from its works, and if possible have the actual work of shooting 

 performed by some expert employe; or, if desired, the gun and 

 cartridges maybe sent to this office, and the shooting will be done 

 by a skillful and experienced marksman. By sending, as sug- 

 gested, a selected gun direct from the works, all trouble on our 

 part in getting a gun of that make from the stock now upon the 

 market, will be avoided. 



It is desirable that all the tests of the score or more makes to be 

 included in the preliminary trial shall be completed within the 

 next few weeks. If you will, therefore, write as early as possibly 

 we can agree upon a date when we can meet on the range and 

 carry through the open air part of the test with accuracy and ex- 

 pedition. Yours respectfully, 



Forest and Stream Publtshing Co. 



[Of course, all expenses connected with the tests have 

 been met by Forest and Stream, and no charge has 



been made upon the companies. It is not intended to 

 close the tests when each company has been heard from 

 with its make of gun; but the large field of comparative 

 charges, of various styles of loading, of various calibers, 

 weight and styles of weapons, of powders and shot— all 

 these open up a large and inviting held for our gun man 

 to lead the way and for our readers to follow.] 



The following guns have been tested and reported upon 

 in the issues of dates given: 

 Remington 1(5 hammer, May 30. 

 Parker 10 hammer and 12 hammerless, June 6. 

 Colt 12, July 25. 

 Greener 12. Aug. 1. 

 Scott 10, Sept. 5. 

 Greener 10, Sept. 12, Sept 19. 

 Folsom 10 and 12, Sept. 26. 

 Winchester repeater 10 and 12, Oct. 3. 

 L. C. Smith 12, Oct. 10. 

 Colt 10 and 12, Oct. 24. 



RIFLE CALIBERS. 



Editor Forest and Stream: 



I have been much interested in the correspondence 

 there has been going on for some months in Forest AND 

 Stream respecting rifles for small game and all-around 

 rifles. A few years ago when I was in Canada, and used 

 to go shooting along the shores of a lake, I got very much 

 disgusted with my .22 rifle, for the ducks and other 

 waterfowl seemed to mind a bullet very little; I have 

 even shot snipe so that their entrails hung out as they 

 flew' away; biit I lost them for all that. Then when I 

 took my .88 rifle I found it too noisy and dangerous for 

 that district, and after thinking the matter over I came 

 to the conclusion that a double rifle using the .22 and .32 

 cartridges was the thing. 



However, leaving Canada and coming to a country 

 where shooting can only be indulged in by people with 

 very long purses, it has not been my fortune to get any 

 shooting, so that the rifle question did not interest me so 

 much. 



But a few weeks ago, when at the Paris exhibition, I 

 saw a very near approach to my ideal rifle, and it proved 

 that my idea was practical; so for the benefit of any one 

 who may choose to have one made I will describe you my 

 ideal rifle: I would have a steel octagon barrel made, 

 with two holes through it, bored and rifled, one for the 

 .22cal. and the other for the .32cal. rim-fire cartridges. 

 For a breech-action I would have the No. 1 Remington, 

 with the firing pin made so that it would act on the rims 

 of both cartridges. I would have the rifle put together 

 so that the .22cal. chamber was over the .32. As it would 

 be almost impossible to bore out both holes perfectly 

 parallel I would have tsvo sets of folding back sights, 6ne 

 set for each barrel, or the one could have the plain open 

 sight, and the other a Lyman back sight. A rifle of this 

 description need not cost above twenty per cent, more 

 than a single one. 



Foremall calibers I prefer rim-fire cartridges; they are 

 cheap and can be found almost anywhere. Small reload- 

 able cartridges are a nuisance. I can put in hours at a 

 time casting bullets and filling shells for my military rifle, 

 but when it comes to loading my .32 S. & W. shells I get 

 disgusted very soon. As to power, I bhould think the 

 .32 extra long rifle cartridge powerful enough for deer, 

 even while the short would be just the thing for ducks, 

 etc., although a rifle could be made to take the Winches- 

 ter .32 center-fire cartridges for any one requiring a heavy 

 bullet. I would like to know what "Iron Ramrod" thinks 

 of my ideal rifle. If he is not too crushing in his remarks 

 upon it, I may give you my ideas about a combination 

 rifle and shotgun. Franc-Tireur. 



Medle, France. 



Editor Forest and Stream: 



Perhaps no subject has been so fully discussed of late 

 as that of the ''all-around rifle," and I doubt if any one 

 will ever arrive at a satisfactory concluf ion regarding it. 

 The writer has given it up long ago. The rifle that was 

 good for such game as bear and deer I could never con- 

 vert into a good arm for small game and short-range 

 practice. Of all the calibers tried, the best, I found, all 

 things considered, was the .38-55 255 cartridge. It has 

 very fair killing power for large game, using fifty-five 

 grains of powder (which has to be poured through a long 

 tube in order to get it into the cartridge case) and an ex- 

 press bullet of 235 grains. For small game and gallery 

 practice fair results may be obtained by using from eight 

 to ten grains of powder and a round bullet, but even then 

 it will tear small game pretty badly. For short-range 

 practice there is a cartridge made which uses a short 

 conical bullet, and gives excellent results, while for off- 

 hand practice at 300yds. the regular charge is too well 

 known to need any comments made upon it. But after 

 m uch trouble and experimenting I find the most satis- 

 factory way is to have a stock with detachable barrels. 

 For short-range practice and gallery work the .22cal. 

 long rifle cartridge is the thing. I have fired some 4,000 

 of these cartridges from a Stevens and Maynard rifle and 

 have never had an unaccountable and only about twenty- 

 five missfires, and have obtained first-class results even 

 up to 200yds. and fair results at much longer distances. 

 For small game, such as squirrel?, grouse, ducks, geese, 

 etc., all things considered , I believe the new .25-20 center- 

 fire cartridge fills the bill; it has a low curve, does not 

 tear the game much, is remarkably accurate and has 

 splendid killing power; in fact I don't know of any other 

 cartridge embodying so many good points. 



For large game use a good charge of powder and a 

 pretty large bullet. I have seen deer killed with charges 

 varying from five grains of powder and a round bullet of 

 fifty grain?!, shot from a S. & W. revolver to the old 

 Sharp .45-120-550, and have used the .32-40, .38-55, .40 60, 

 .40-65, .40-82, .40-70, .44-40 -20, .45-70, etc. The .32 40 I 

 liked very much for a short-range deer gun, having a light 

 recoil and being an excellent cartridge so far as trajec- 

 tory and accuracy are concerned; but it is too small and 

 light for bear shooting. The .38 55 was better for killing 

 power, but I came to the conclusion that for larger game 

 a larger bore would give better j esul ts. The .40-65 loaded 

 with an expansion bullet of 260 grains was one of the 

 best little guns I ever shot. While using this gun I killed 

 eight deer and tw» bears. None of the deer ran over 

 20yds. after being hit. One of the bears ran about 10yds. 

 down hill, but when I got there 6he was dead. If you 

 wish a little more killing power and a lower flight of 



