248 



Mr. Moore. — But there is a material difference. 



Mr. Newtox. — I have yentured upon a definition of force as being " a 

 poT^er " by which changes, whether of position or of condition, are produced. 

 But if energy " be power not exerted in action, then I see no difference 

 realh', between that word and " force *' and " power," and we get into a con- 

 fusion of terms. 



Piey. P. Strutt. — It seems to me that there is a difference between 

 Mr. Brooke and Mr. Moore. I understood the last speaker to introduce 

 the idea of mental power as Cjuite distinct from the physical power with 

 which Mr. Brooke dealt. But if the conseryation of force and power ex- 

 tend to mental power, then the introduction of any human being into 

 the world is the introduction of a new force into the world (the human 

 will originates action, and with the augmentation of persons there is augmen- 

 tation of power), and when you take that idea, you open up a new metaphy- 

 sical field altogether. It appears to me that that should be distinctly kept 

 in mind if we are to deal with the physical cjuestion. 



The Chairmax. — I apprehend that 'Mv. Brooke deals exclusiyely with the 

 physical question. It is difficult to say where it infringes on the mental 

 question. 



Dr. IR0^'S. — May we catechise Mr. Brooke ? 



The Chairman. — I think we are fully entitled to ask him to explain his 

 terms. 



Dr. Irons. — Then I should like to ask him one or two ciuestions. First, 

 how these ultimate atoms — so to speak — are supposed in his philosophy to 

 work ? Do they work in right lines, on the north, south, east, or west of 

 each atom ? How did they get their original direction, and how do they 

 afterwards carry out the original idea according to which they began to 

 moye 1 Take the leayes of the plane-tree, for instance ; they are all fonued 

 on one model, so that an obseryer may see at once whether a giyen leaf is the 

 leaf of an oak or of a plane-tree. The original atom began to obtain motion 

 somehow, and I want to know if that motion was in a direct line ? 



Mr. Brooke. — We know nothing whateyer about atoms. It is all pure 

 conjecture, and therefore when you ask me what the atoms do, I teU you 

 distinctly that I know nothing about them. 



Mr. Moore. — I haye always felt that the battle would haye to be fought 

 there, and I asked an able physicist, " Do you not put the whole of the 

 doctrine of the conservation of energy upon the doctrine of atoms ? " His 

 reply was, " Certainly I do." We know nothing at all about matter and 

 motion, but we haye various forms of motion, and these are the forces of the 

 atoms. That is the whole basis of the conservation of energy.^' Though 

 j\Ir. Brooke may assert nothing on this point, other physicists do. ]Mr. 

 Croll has written a paper in the Philosophical Magazine on this subject — 

 as to what is the cause of molecular motion in reference to these 

 atoms. 



The Chairman. — Mr. Moore surprised me in his previous observations, 

 by seeming to intmiate that colour was a cpiality of the atoms. 



