Oct. 37, 1605. J 



POnfiST AND gtR:eAM. 



Cruisers and Crtdsing. 



CoBOTjRG, Oct,. 19 —Editor Forest and St/ream: In your last issue 

 I notice "Cayuga's" graceful response to my challeuge. Allow me, 

 through your friendly columns, to assure him that I heartily sympa- 

 thize wltu him in his cruising proclivities, and agree that a mere trial 

 of speed would by no means settle (he question of who had the best 

 all-round boat. We have undoubtedly heard too much about fast 

 boats and not enough about useful and bandy ones of late, and I, 

 like "'Cayuga," want to know if '"Nessmub" and "Seneca" have no 

 successors. 



"Cayuga" is right in his surmise as to the purpose for which Elsa 

 was designed. Speed was an object, but not the first and only aim. 

 He is wrong in supposing me indifferent to the delights of the rod and 

 gun. I can en joy casting the winsome fly into the eddy behind the 

 great granite boulder with the best of anglers, even when the trout 

 are not rising freely; and can tramp contentedly through the bush 

 for hours even if I get only a solitary partridge. But these pleasures 

 are only secondary ro the exhilaration of a lively bout to windwa,rd 

 in a fresh breeze on blue water, or an intricate piece of navigation 

 through unknown waters with only chart and compass as a guide; or 

 again, a run in a cedar canoe down some rapid river where at any 

 turn the strong current may develop into a boiling rapid and every 

 sense is on the alert to detect the sunken rock or impassable water- 

 tall. 



Nature I Aye, I can enjoy her works to the full, and some ten 

 years of camp life have not dulled my appreciation of the pleasures 

 of the social pipe and chat and the glosving coals of the camp fire, 

 with the moon casting a broad silver band over the quiet waters of 

 the lake and glistening on the dewy bottom of the upturned canoe; 

 everything hushed and quiet save the lap, lap. of the wavelets on 

 the beach and the occasional hoot of the owl from the big dead pine 

 tree back of the camp. 



"Cayuga's" refereDce=! to my logs of the cruises of the Sylvia and 

 the Winnie are quite too Haltering, but if any one cares for a similar 

 narrative of a cruise on better known and more frequented waters I 

 will respond to his request and .spin a yarn of the experiences of the 

 Elsa and her crew during a 300 mile cruise from Cobourg to Montreal 

 completed only a few days since. Had I the pen of a William Black 

 I might attempt a description of the beauties of the Thousand Islands 

 in Indian summer, minus the summer tourist and plus the October 

 coloring, and I might try to do justice to the majesty of Lake Ontario 

 during an equinoctial sou'wester. My powers of description being 

 very limited, however, I can promise notning more than an unvar- 

 nished narrative of an exciting run down the great lake and river 

 toward the sea. Henry K. Wiokstekd. 



[We can answer for our readers that anytoing from our corre- 

 spondent's pen will be welcome to them; we know of no truer dis- 

 ciple of "Nessrauk" and "Seneca" than the skipper of the Sylvia.] 



CANOE NEWS NOTES. 



The Chicago C. C. met on Oct. 10 at the residence of Mr. C. W. Lee, 

 for election of officers and a general discussion of canoeing matters 

 in the West. The following officers were elected for the coming 

 year; Captain, J. H. Ware; Mite, A. W. Kitchin ; Purser. H. B. 

 Oook. Mr. E. Hough, of Forest and Stream, and Dr. Jas. A. Hen- 

 shall were elected to honorary membership. After the formalities 

 were disposed of all adjourned'to the dioiug room and partook with 

 characteristic vigor of the refreshments provided. The club was 

 fortunate in having with them for tae evening Commodore Munger, 

 ex-Secretary Woodruff and Mr. Crawford, of Dayton, O.— C. W. L, 



If any one but "Podgers" had penned the harsh and cruel state 

 ments which the Forest akd Stream'.s reputation for fairness to both 

 sides compels us to publish this week, we should have attributed 

 them to either a misconception or misstatement of the facts. Know- 

 ing, however, the strict impartiality and the freedom from all preju- 

 dice of our correspondent, we feel that any attempt at explanation 

 on our part could but be unavailing. Like the unfortunate victims 

 of the Mikado, 



"His terrible tale we can't assail. 

 With truth it quite agrees. 

 His taste exact for faultless fact, 

 Amounts to a disease." 



The position of the New York Y. C. in regard to the new deed of 

 gift is very clearly shown in the answer of General Paine to the news- 

 paper men at the first meeting of the special committee. The ques- 

 tion written and sent in to the committee was, "Under the instruc- 

 tions to the committee incorporated in your resolution, is not the 

 committee bound to hold to the policy that the Cup, if won by Lord 

 Dunraven, must and will be held under the new deed of gift only 5" 

 General Paiue's answer was brief and to the point: "This challenge 

 is under the new deed of gift." 



DrvESTED of all irrelevant details, the maiu issue is plainly stated: 

 The New York Y. C. declares that it will not accept a challenge 

 for the America's Cup unless the new deed of gift is recognized as 

 legal and binding by the challenger. Lord Dunraven has asserted 

 positively that he will not challenge under the new deed, and the 

 leading British yacht clubs have made the same assertion. Such 

 being the case, a race can only be possible through the square back- 

 ing down of one party or the other. 



Mb. Royal Phb-lps Cabholl has placed himself on record as a 

 thorough sportsman by the statement which he made at the meet- 

 ing of the New York Y. C, to the effect that if Lord Dunraven's new 

 yacht should piove imder 80ft. waterhne, his new84-footer would not 

 be available to defend the nap. There may still be some yachtsmen 

 who consider it sportsmanlike to beat a smaller yacht by a larger 

 one, but Mr. Carroll is not one of them. 



The Deed of Gift Discussion. 



The Boston Herald devotes neaily a column of its space this 

 week to the Forest and Streaju 'in an attack which more closely 

 resembles abuse man argumen : but the real issues in dispute are so 

 few and simple, and so purely lechnieal, as to give no excuse to the 

 JJsraZd for ignoring them and resorcmg to personalities, a method 

 of fighting which we do not propose to follow. Without attempting 

 to reply to the Herald^s attack in detail, or in kind, we quote several 

 of the least irrelevant of its remarks: 



"In this week's issue it [Forest ajsd Stream} again takes up the 

 old cry, and says about the new deed that 'it was adopted secretly 

 and hastily by a. small party in the club, and no opportnnity was 

 given to the members at large to discuss or vote on it,' In the light 

 of events during the past two week?, if common sense and decency 

 had prevailed, no such remarks would have been used. 



"On Oct. i Lord Dunraven's challenge was received by Secretary 

 Oddie. Two weeks' notice was given the members that the challenge 

 would be acted on Tuesday, Oct. 18. The meeiing was widely 

 noticed in the press, and i.he members had ample time to talk the 

 matter over between themselves. At a meeting specially called to 

 consider Dunraven's challenge, the club, after the new deed had 

 stood five years and had been thoroughly discussed by the press and 

 the members, again approved its conditions by a unanimons vote of 

 the members present. This surely is an answer to the above state- 

 ment." 



What connection can exist between the meeting of Oct. 3. 1887, at 

 which the deed of s-ift was changed, and that of Oct. 18. 1892, at 

 which Lord Dunraven's letter was considered, the Herald does not 

 state. The meeting of Oct. 3, 1887, was held three days after the 

 last Thistle race, the call being hardly within the legal limit As 

 this special and hastily convened meeting was nominally called for 

 the transaction of a lot of trivial business relating to a reception to 

 Mr. Bell, a dinner to Messrs. Paine and Burgess, a testimonial to Mr. 

 Burgess, thanks to the Police Department, etc., it attracted little at- 



tention, and few members were present, only fourteen of them, we 

 understand, being qualified to vote. 



At this meeting the America's Cup was taken out of the hands of 

 the New York Yacht Club, and turned over to a committee of five, 

 to do with absolutely as they pleased; the club at large having no 

 further power in the matter. The deliberations of this committee 

 were guarded with the utmost care, and nothing was known of their 

 disposition of the cup until the new deed was fiually executed by 

 them and Mr. Schuyler. When at last read at an open meeting of the 

 club, the deed had been adopted beyond possibility of change. 



It is on these plain facts that we base our statement that the change 

 of conditions was made hastily, secretly, by a few men, and in an 

 unusual manner, and that the new deed has never been submitted to 

 a vote of the yaclit owners of the New York Yacht Club. At the 

 rneeiing on Oct. 18 no vote was taken on the new deed, but a vote 

 was taken which amounted to a repudiation of one of its most im- 

 portant clauses, that relating to the dimensions. The best reply 

 which the Herald has to offer is that two weeks' notice was 

 given in the case of a meeting held for another purpose five years 

 later. 



Again the Herald says: "The predictions of the Fore.st and Stream 

 that no more challenges would be sent while the present deed existed 

 have fallen flat. Two have been sent, and the latest is to be acted on 

 Tuesday night." 



For once the Herald quotes us correctly. We said several years 

 since that no foreign yacht club would challenge for the America's 

 Cup under the new deed of gift. In 1889 a challense was issued by 

 Lord Dunraven, indorsed by the Royal Yacht Squadron; hut only 

 because it was understood that the holders woulsl not insist on the 

 new deed. As soon as the true state of the ease was made plain, both 

 Lord Dunraven and the R Y. 8. withdi-ew the challeng«. Again 

 within the past month a second challenge has come from Lord Dun- 

 raven, as yet unindorsed by a yacht club; but it is made expressly on 

 the condition that it is not under the new deed. 



Our criiicism that the cessation of racing for the Cup has injured 

 building and racing in America, 'orings out the following from the 

 Herald: 



"Of the harm it— the new deed— has done to American yachting in 

 stopping all international racing there is no need to speak— the re- 

 sults are too plain, says the New York paper. This is another one of 

 its old cries. Compare yachting to day as it is on both sides of the 

 water. Two big flOft. steel schooners were built on this side last sea- 

 son, and another S4-footef is bow building at Bristol, and she is to go 

 across for the cups. The fast Wasp has made a record, and the data 

 obtained from the 31 fc. class is more than was ever found out from 

 the past races for the Cup. Herreshoff in sending tlie Wenonah 

 across put life into yachting m Scotland." 



In the three years 188,'5-6-7, when international racing was at its 

 height, there were built the following yachts, from 70 to 90ft. or 

 over: Puritan, Priscilla, Mayflower, V^oluuteer, Atlantic, Sachem, 

 Merhn, OEnone, Titania, ShamrocK, Marguerite, Constellation and 

 Iroquois, a fleet of 13 fine yachts in three years. In the five years, 

 1888 to 1892, there have been built Katrma, Sea Fox, Lasca and 

 Alcaea, four in all. Of course racing has flourished in the smaller 

 classes and a few cruising yachts have been built, but in the large 

 racing classes the era of building began with Genesta's challenge 

 and ceased abruptly with the new deed of gift, a curious coincidence, 

 if nothing more. 



Such methods as those of the iJeraZd can only be displeasing to 

 fair and impartial spectators, and disappointing to those partisans of 

 the new deed who find in it almost the only paper which has not 

 withdrawn its first hasty indorsement of the action of a part of the 

 New York Y. 0. in 1887. 



Lord Dunraven's Challenge. 



At the first meeting of the special committee on Oct. 1~ only Gen. 

 Paine and Messrs. Fish and Rogers were present. On the following 

 day a second meeting was held at the office of Fleet Captain Peabody. 

 at which Messrs. Canfleld and Smith were also present. A reply to 

 Lord Dunraven was framed and despatched by Saturday's mail, but 

 its nature is not yet known. 



The New Yoric Times comments as follows on the challerge: 



"The New York Y. C. has at last found a way to accept a challenge 

 to race tor the America's Cup without demanding the dimensions of 

 the challenging vessel. This is unquestionably a hopeful sign, but it 

 by no means insures a race next season. Whether it be enforced or 

 not, the clause calling for dimensions is still in the deed of gift, govern- 

 ing the cup, and gives any club holding the cup the power to aemand 

 dimensions if it feels disposed to do so. This clause is unfair and un- 

 sportsmanlike, and no matter how many concessions may be made, 

 the New York Y. C. can escape the charge of trying to take an un 

 fair advantage of an opponent only by expunging the clause en- 

 tirely. Taking advantage of the mutual agreement clause in order 

 to work around the dimensions clause is a poor substitute for the 

 doing away with the latter. 



"The situation of to-day is practically the same as it has be^n ever 

 .since the present deed came mto existence. The New York Y. C. is 

 trying to establish the deed as a fair document and is working harder 

 to do this than ever before. The wording of its resolutions, how- 

 ever, is well calculated to obscure the main issue, which is, whether 

 English yachtsmen will aoeept the new deed. Lord Dunraven, on 

 the other hand, is evidently under the impression that concessions 

 are equivalent to a waiver of the deed, whereas one race under the 

 deed will establish it for aU time. 



"It would save much unnecessary correspondence if the subject of 

 the deed were settled first, for it is unlikely that English yacht clubs 

 will challenge when they learn that in case their yacht won they 

 would have to accept the 'instrument in writing lawfully executed,' 

 and thereafter enforce its terms. Lord Dunraven's challenge is not 

 ofScial. It will have to be forwarded by a recognized yacht club, 

 unless indeed the New York Y. C. should interpret 'mutual agree- 

 ment' to mean that anybody can challenge." 



Lord Dunraven and the New Deed. 



T HE position of Lord Dunraven in regai-d to the new deed is very 

 clearly stated in a letter recently written by him to a New York 

 yachtsman, in which he speaks as follows: 



" It is I think evident that as long as the present regulations remain 

 in full force, no challeuge is likely to issue from the United Kingdom; 

 whether the opinions of yachtsmen who object to some of these 

 relulations are justifiable or not, is really beside the question. What 

 we have to deal with is the fact: and the fact is that international 

 racing is at a standstill, and is lUcely to die out altogether if no race 

 takes place next year. Such an eventuality would be a matter of the 

 greatest regret to me as a lover of yacht racing; and I have, there- 

 fore, written to the New York Yacht Club to ascertain whether it is 

 not possible to arrange a match for next year. 



"I am strongly in the opinion that, in the case of an international 

 challenge cup, the conditions under which it should be raced for 

 ought to be settled by a mixed committee representing at any rate 

 the two nations most Interested in the matter, namely, the United 

 States and the United Kingdom; and in the intei'ests of sport I wish 

 that course could be pursued in the case of tlie America Cup. But 

 this is more or less of the nature of the nature of a "pious opinion." 



"In mentioning to the New Tork Y. C. my principal objections to 

 the present rules, I am speaking merely for myself; but at th" same 

 time 1 believe I am justified in assuming that my views would meet 

 with pretty gfineral acceptance on this side. My main objection is to 

 the dimension clause. Length on the 1 /ad waterline bemg the chief 

 factor in determining speed, should be given with the notice of chal- 

 lenge, but no other measurements should be required. To be com- 

 pelled to furnish all the principal dimensions of his vessel is too on- 

 erous upon a challenger. Length on the load waterhne, if desired 

 the Custom House register, is, I think, sufficient to protect the chal- 

 lenged party from being taken in any way unawares. 



"As tlie object of international racing is that the best ship and the 

 best handled ship should win, the competing vessels should be as 

 nearly as possible identical in length on the waterhne, and the 

 courses should be as free as possible from all adventitious cu-cum- 

 stances. The question of courses is best left to ba settled by mutual 

 agreement, but a rule should be made respecting length, and to pre- 

 vent the possibility of a recurrence of such a discrepancy between 

 the estimated and measured length, as occurred in the case of 

 Thistle. If the New York Y. 0. see their way to remodel the deed of 

 gift in accordance with the suggestions on these points in my letter 

 to them. I will challenge; and in the interests of sport I most sin- 

 cerely hope that my suggestions may prove acceptable to them, and 

 that i may be able to send a vessel across to compete for the America 

 Cup in 1893— a year most appropriate for such a contest." 



The Riveraide Y. C. closed the summer season on Oct. 15 with a 

 dance at the club house, Rivei-side, Conn. The club has prospered 

 greatly during the year, and with its increased membprship has out- 

 grown the present club house. Plans are now ready for extensive 

 alterations and and additions this winter, and with the opening of 

 next season the club will have one of the finest houses and best har- 

 bors on the north shore of Long Island Sound. The work of dredg- 

 ing the harbor will be carried on by the Government during the win- 

 ter. This year the club has secured winter quarters at 39 West 

 Thirty-first street, New York, where the members will meet. During 

 the winter the club may give a series of lectures on yachting sub- 

 jects. 



ha, Glofia. 



SAILIKS AND CRXIISIKG BOAT. 



The little boat whose lines are here given belongs to the series of 

 small sailine and cruising cratt of light draft that was so fully illus- 

 trated in the Fore.- t and stream in 1SS6-7.* one of which was repro- 

 duced two weeks since. The chief peculiarity of these boats, the 

 sneakbox, the Barnegat cruiser, and the Forest and Stream cruiser, 

 is the excessively full waterline— apeculiarity a few years since found 

 only in boats of this class, but now carried to an extreme degree, and 

 apparently with satisfactory resuHs in the larger classes of yachts. 



The present design is based upon that of the Delta, published on 

 Nov. 3, 1887, the beam, draft and midship section being about the 

 same, and the displacement but little greater. At the same time an 

 effort has be^n made to produce a handsomer and more stylish boat, 

 and to realize such advnntage as may be had ihrough a moderate 

 overhang forward, the stern being carried out to give a graceful 

 finish, with some added power. The original drawing was made over 

 that of the Delta, to the same scale, IJ^in. to the foot. As this made 

 a rather larger craft than was desired, a scale of l^^in. was used to 

 reduce the length to about l.^ft. 



The drawing here shown has been reduced in the process of photo- 

 engraving from a final drawing of the smaller size to a scale of Im. 

 to the loot; from which drawing the following table of offsets for the 

 smaller size was made out. The table of offsets for the l.sft. size was 

 taken from the origiual larger drawing, the waierlines in which 

 were 3in. apart, and do not correspond with tho.^e here given. In 

 each size the distance of the vertical stations apart is exactly 1-13 of 

 the waterline, but in the 18ft. boat the various waterlines are snaced 

 3ln. apart: while in the smaller boat they are but Sin. The heights in 

 both cases are measured from the baseline, tt e heel of the scag being 

 a little below this line. The details of the two sizes are as follows: 



TABLE OF DIMENSIONS. 



The small figures indicate eighths of an inch. 



loft. 4in. Lw.l. 18ft. l.w.l. 



FT IN. FT. IN. 



Length over all 20 1 23 6 



l.w.l 15 4^ 18 



Overhang, bow 1 S'' 1 6 



stern 3 5 4 



Beam, extreme 4 (5 5 



l.w.l 4 1 4 9< 



Freeboard, least 10* 1 



Sheer, bow 7 



stern 4" e 



Draft, without board 8 



Sad area, sq.fr, 158 240 



Fore end, l.w.l. to— 



mainmast 4 6 b S 



.slot, fore end 5 (i 6 6 



after end 10 4 12 



cockpit, fore end 7 B 9 



after end 14 1 IG 6 



mizenmast 1o 72 18 3 



Cockpit, breadth... 3 6 4 2 



Breadth across tran.som 1 1^ 14 



Round of deck 3 3* 



TABLE OP OFFSETS— 15ft. 4lN. BOAT. 



Stations spaced 1ft. .^^in. Waterline spaced 2in. Buttock lines 

 spaced of extreme beam. Diagonals as in body plan. 



0' 



1* 



6' 

 103 

 1 2" 



1 11 

 1 



1 08 

 1 06" 

 1 05' 

 1 05 

 1 04-t 

 1 043 

 1 04 

 1 043 

 1 043 

 1 Ois 

 1 05 

 1 05' 

 1 06S 

 1 075 

 1 092 



Halp-Bbeadths. 



I 1' 

 1 66 



1 101 

 3 0" 



2 31 

 2 2' 

 2 3 



a 28 



2 1" 

 ■2 



1 9'' 



I 61 

 1 



II I 



Waterlines. 



4 



lis 

 1 4* 



1 8' 



1 IP 



2 15 

 2 28 

 2 3 



2 3a 



3 1 

 1 U' 

 1 8 

 1 4' 



109 



32 

 86 



» 1 2J 

 » 1 6* 

 3 1 11 1 97 



■i 1 



2 22 



2 2* 



3 1' 

 3 05 

 1 10* 

 1 76 

 1 3 



3 Qi 

 2 li 



2 1- 



3 H 

 1 IV' 

 1 



1 52 

 9' 



65 



1 02 

 1 4' 

 1 



1 105 



2 



2 03 

 1 lie 

 1 10= 

 I 65 

 1 



8' 

 93 



1 



1 55 

 1 8 

 I 9' 



1 91 

 1 ft- 

 I 62 



ii«: 



08 



52 

 9 



I 0' 

 1 2< 



1 



1 



1 1* 

 73 

 n 



1 3 

 1 8 



1 11 



2 25 

 2 45 



2 5' 



3 62 

 3 55 

 3 43 

 3 2» 

 1 118 

 1 83 

 1 42 



10« 



7' 



1 14 



1 

 1 

 2 



2 15 



2 23 



3 2< 

 2 31 

 2 1 



1 n 



1 8' 



1 h'> 

 1 



52 

 IP 



in 

 5 

 53 

 52 

 4c 



TABLE OF OFFSETS— 18pT. BOAT. 



Stations spaced 1ft. 6in. Waterlines spaced 3ia. Buttock line.s 

 spaced % of extreme beam. Diagonals as in body plan. 





Heights. 



Halp-Breadths. 





















Waterlines. 









Diagonals, 



0 

















































1 





































1 







« 



Deck. 



16in. 



ISin. 



lOin. 



LWL 



41n. 



No.l 



No. 2 



No. 3 



A 



3 



3 



3« 





OJ 

















01 









0 



7 



2 



C5 





9 





63 





4' 





2« 





01 









10 





85 





1 



2- 



1 



11' 



1 



42 



1 



2 



1 



0^ 





10^ 





7,-, 





3" 



1 



55 



1 



30 



ll" 





02 



1 



10 



1 



101 



1 



8- 



1 



6-1 



1 





1 







102 



1 



ll-* 



1 



fls 



1 4 



3 





I 



S' 



3 



22 



3 



1 



1 



11' 



1 



102 



1 



7' 



1 



35 



2 



4 



2 



15 



1 63 



4 





1 



8 



3 



5 



2 



42 



3 



33 



2 



21 







1 



V 



3 



73 



3 



45 



1 7* 



5 





1 



.74 



S 



e« 



2 



6» 



2 



5« 



2 



4« 



3 



3'' 



1 







9" 



2 



63 



1 8? 



6 





1 



v« 



3 



75 



Z 



73 



3 



71 



3 



62 



2 



42 



1 



IV 



2 





2 



72 



1 8" 







1 



71 



2 



8 



3 





2 







6" 



3 



43 



3 





2 



u* 



2 



72 



1 81 



8 





1 



7 





73 



2 





2 



6'- 



3 



5' 



3 



4 



1 



w 



2 



10' 



2 



6" 



1 7* 



9 



0' 



1 



72 



3 



61 



3 



5« 



2 



33 



2 



4' 



3 



2 



1 



62 



2 



93 



2 



55 



1 63 



10 



2 





* 



2 



4 



2 





•2 



3 





1^ 



1 



101 





97 





71 



2 



3^ 



1 4-I 



11 



42 1 



8 



3 



0' 



2 



0< 



1 



115 



1 



9-' 



1 











4 





02 



1 3 



12 



8 





8 



1 



92 



1 



8^ 



1 



72 



1 



V 















1 





102 



13 



1 02 



1 



97 



1 



45 



1 



3' 





8 









1 



7 



1 



32 





14 



1 



1 113 



112 



8 

















1 



05 





82 





15 



2 



1 







































1 









All measurements are to outside of plank. 



* See Barnegat Sneakbox, .Jan. 7, 1886; Barnegat Cruiser, Jan. 14, 

 1886 (republished Oet. 13, 1.S92); Forest and Stream Cruiser, Jan. 21, 

 1886, and July 1, 1886; Delta, Nov. 3 and 10, 1887, 



