84 



FOREST AND STREAM. 



[Jan. 20, 1894. 



tgtetynUwe mid ^inh ^rohsfion. 

 THE COAST FISHERY CONFERENCE. 



Proceedings of Conference Held to Consider 

 the Subject of the Exhaustion of 

 Coast Line Food Fishes. 



OFFICIAL REPORT BY SECRETARY E. P. DOYLE. 

 (Continued from Page 34.) 



Luther Haddocks, of Maine, then addressed the conven- 

 tion as follows: 



I was sent here by a class of men on the coast of Maine who 

 make their living by using the purse nets, drag nets and 

 purse seines. I am a fisherman myself by birth and occupa- 

 tion, and while I do not do a great deal of fishing now, I am 

 brought in contact every day of my life with the different 

 classes of fishermen on the coast of Maine, as well as Massa- 

 chusetts. We are brought here to-day under a call of the 

 New York Fish Commission to discuss the question of the 

 exhaustion of coast line food fishes, starting out with the 

 broad assumption that there is a scarcity of food fish. Gen- 

 tlemen, who says so? Ask the men down at Pulton Market. 

 Ask the men at T Wharf. Ask the men at Dock Square in 

 Philadelphia. They will tell you they have fish for sale at 25 

 per cent, less than what we sold them twenty-five years ago — 

 hake at 75 cents a hundred, cod for 2 cents a pound, herring 

 for 3^ cent or % cent a pound. We are told here that there 

 is a scarcity. In order to make fish cheap, you must adopt 

 the best facilities for catching them. Can you get up any 

 better scheme to lower the price of fish? 



I am speaking from a fisherman's standpoint, gentlemen. 

 If there is no scarcity existing, and the statistics do not show 

 any scarcity, why are we here? There seems to be a misap- 

 prehension of the facts, and we, as fishermen, are willing to 

 submit to the most thorough investigation. If you will pro- 

 duce a committee of disinterested men to investigate this 

 matter, and find that there is a scarcity and that the cause is 

 the purse seines and nets, we will listen, we will join hands 

 with you and regulate it; but until that time we are not go- 

 ing to plead guilty, not by any means. Gentlemen, when we 

 made our treaty with Canada a few years aeo, or attempted to 

 make one, it was said we no longer owned the bait supply, 

 and people asked, What are you going to do about it? How 

 are you going to get your bait for fishermen? It set us think- 

 ing on the coast of Maine and Massachusetts, and the result 

 has been we have built up the best bait fishing in the world. 

 The fishermen are getting a bait cheaper than ever before. 

 Gentlemen, we will corroborate these statements. We are 

 entirely independent of the British Americau Provinces so 

 far as bait goes. Canada is a competitor in the fi«h market 

 to-day. They are sending their herring to Philadelphia by 

 the carload and stand on the wharves to-day in competition 

 with the herring and the cod on the coast of Maine. They are 

 getting them cheaper there aud transport them. The duty 

 to-day is % cent a pound on fresh fish. 



Suppose you inquire into this law — what will be the re- 

 sult? The idea as given out here by the paper which was 

 read by Mr. Huntington (I hope I may be pardoned for criti- 

 cising it in a friendly way), starts out on the assumption that 

 there should be a law, and that law, as proposed, would re- 

 sult in the total annihilation of the business. Talking about 

 the catch of menhaden within two miles of the shore and sus- 

 taining the business, it cannot be done! Talk about regu- 

 latiug your traps according to that idea is also ridiculous. 

 It cannot be done! We would have to abandon the fish busi- 

 ness if such a law was enacted. I would like some other 

 easier way to make a living. It is hard work, exposure and 

 all that sort of thing. It is not a soft snap at all, as the word 

 goes. Our men supply a great deal of fish and they are a 

 class of men who cannot come to court and defend them- 

 selves, and they want to be heard and I believe they should 

 be heard. 



Sylvanus Smith of Gloucester, Mass., then addressed the 

 meeting as follows: 



I come here in the interest of my people. We have about 

 400 sailing vessels which fish in the deep sea. Some years 

 ago when the Canadians prohibited us from taking bait on 

 our shore, we looked about to see what we should do for bait 

 for our fishermen. This is not a question of menhaden, 

 though we use them for bait. Our business is to get our 

 living out of the sea Whatever is done to take the pound 

 fishing away, strikes a people who are dependent upon it for a 

 living. We cannot exist as a fishing city without the pound. 

 Last year there was some legislation prohibiting the pound 

 fishing in Buzzards Bay. We did take some bait there. 



Our business is fishing, and no business has a better record 

 than that has in our city, and when you take away the 

 pounds it is the first blow at our fisheries. Our people asked 

 me to come here to see what you propose to do. This is a 

 vital question to us, but whether weakfish come in along the 

 Jersey shore or not is of no consequence as far as we are con- 

 cerned. 



When you enact a law that prohibits the pound fishing 

 you strike a double blow. We cannot go on the Nova Scotia 

 coast and take fish there without we violate a law, or any 

 other fish within three miles of land. We sometimes go there 

 and take fish for baiting by paying a tax of $1.50 per ton. 



That law can be revoked at any time at their pleasure. As 

 Mr. Maddocks says, along our shore they have built cold 

 storage or freezers to keep fish bait for us. If you take away 

 the pounds the cold storage is done for. We depend upon 

 them for our bait. 



There is another great question we have to look at in our 

 past — the supply of seamen for our wars. Look at the record 

 of Massachusetts in the past. What was their record in the 

 navy? I see the whole thing is in the sportsmen's interest, 

 and the hotel keepers signed a petition against these traps. 

 Why? Because they waut to fill up their hotels, I want to 

 say that anything you do against these traps will be a double 

 blow to the fishing industry. 

 Robert Potter, of New Jersey, spoke as follows: 

 I am president of the Pound Pishing Association of Long 

 Branch. I have fished for fifty years. In '43, with a hook 

 and line on the rocks at Long Branch, and in '61 1 commenced 

 fishing the pound. It has been said here to-day that 

 they could go along the Jersey coast from Sandy Hook to 

 Cape May, throw off a line and hook a fish most every time. 

 When they did that I must have been asleep. I have fol- 

 lowed fishing for a living for about 50 years. When I want 

 to catch fish, I generally launch my boat, and go off shore 

 on the rocks. If 1 took my boat and line and went along the 

 shore, back and forward, to catch fish for a living, I would 

 have fished my life out. A fellow is a fool to undertake to 

 fish along a shore for a living. 1 have fished the pound in the 

 Bay and since, for about 18 years I have fished the pound 

 outside. I was one of the first men who ever set a pound out 

 in the ocean and for the last 3 years I have caught more fish 

 with a pound than I ever caught in my life. At first we 

 could not make a living at all. We stuck to it, and when we 

 first commenced we could not catch many, hardly enough to 

 m .ke a living, but we kept at it and the fish struck on. Pish 

 are not always on that coast. When I first commenced 

 with a pound you could not catch 501bs. in a day. A few 

 years after that you could catch l,0001bs. of porgies in half a 

 dfey, and from that to 6,000lbs, with a hook and line. 

 They were gone in a few years, were not on the coast at all. 

 When I commenced in '43 I never saw weakfish. There 



1881. 



CATCHES BY VAIL BROS. , ORIENT, L. I. 

 G. M. VAIL. 

 1880, 250 boxes, average $8.50. 



Boxes. Amount. 

 5 $51 58 

 36 53 

 89 32 

 60 11 

 117 78 

 31 81 

 68 97 

 76 82 

 85 26 



10 

 16 

 12 

 18 



20 

 20 

 9 

 20 

 19 

 20 

 10 

 9 

 4 

 8 

 5 

 4 

 6 

 14 

 5 

 3 

 16 

 21 

 15 

 18 

 3 



102 37 



175 95 

 92 76 

 91 25 

 70 68 



142 27 

 79 11 

 40 59 



100 19 



307 37 

 52 35 

 25 09 

 91 64 



138 18 

 . 88 45 



135 55 

 22 10 



318 $2,617 42 



Av.. 



$8 23 



3885. 



Boxes. 



3 



4 

 10 

 37 

 22 

 16 

 31 

 28 

 18 

 24 

 20 

 21 

 14 

 11 

 16 



9 



7 



6 

 16 

 4 



a 



2 



Amount. 



$m 35 



39 62 

 100 89 

 202 85 

 123 94 



71 59 

 162 49 

 141 88 

 133 07 

 129 16 

 221 69 

 167 31 

 144 55 

 102 72 

 133 10 

 71 62 

 129 83 

 104 53 

 95 88 

 100 61 

 59 89 

 46 39 

 53 51 

 66 50 

 17 12 

 58 58 



40 12 

 30 87 



7 86 



365 



$2,794 53 



Av. 



. $10 07 



Av.. 



$7 65 









1889. 





1890. 



Boxc 



s.Amount. 



Boxe 



s.Amount. 



6 



$37 59 



13 



$99 66 



10 



93 69 



18 



114 37 



18 



109 46 



38 



187 41 



19 



87 63 



30 



259 14 



30 



226 35 



13 



114 26 



31 



257 08 



24 



181 47 



19 



214 06 



7 



42 90 



24 



198 56 



27 



262 81 



27 



347 84 



9 



93 55 



22 



220 28 



24 



224 52 



10 



68 39 



33 



369 28 



21 



155 98 



9 



46 77 



35 



296 41 



16 



157 39 



34 



435 70 



19 



231 21 



25 



400 54 



6 



92 81 



20 



292 19 



13 



140 44 



23 



412 92 



2 



28 00 



19 



178 84 



15 



255 01 



13 



241 56 



6 



66 19 



11 



80 19 



13 



125 02 



9 



207 32 



21 



316 84 



7 



76 01 



12 



198 73 



7 



83 25 



21 



188 10 



14 



97 15 



6 



71 61 



5 



59 93 



2 



28 75 



18 



185 08 



17 



196 81 



19 



76 99 



12 



149 44 



7 



38 59 



7 



148 85 



10 



53 28 



10 



79 98 







13 



115 25 



513 



$5,232 86 



24 



209 06 







22 



145 38 



Av' 



$10 20 



16 



158 85 







6 



103 05 







524 



$5,194 91 







Av 



....$9 91 



417 $4,599 93 



Av... $11 03 

 1891. 



Av... $8 61 



Boxes. Amount. Boxes. Ain't. 



7 



$90 87 



3 



$22 ;«8 



11 



78 16 



6 



48 68 



35 



12.3 70 



11 



71 38 



29 



192 65 



29 



192 49 



14 



90 84 



29 



319 60 



28 



259 19 



87 



243 as 



24 



125 78 



51 



359 49 



40 



60 06 



8 



48 09 



36 



192 38 



83 



277 79 



9 



114 39 



88 



380 23 



21 



237 81 



6 



52 54 



27 



216 86 



35 



350 76 



28 



165 89 



5 



44 36 



44 



342 86 



18 



286 58 



23 



228 58 



8 



102 93 



5 



41 71 



34 



220 96 



16 



204 40 



12 



57 15 



15 



190 34 



35 



280 50 



9 



1.3 12 



20 



216 02 



15 



173 14 



9 



97 04 



1 



6 47 



5 



74 88 



7 



70 86 



r 



92 47 



6 



157 37 



10 



113 22 



3 



51 60 



23 



168 85 



7 



79 60 



4 



41 56 



9 



79 65 



10 



135 79 



9 



84 34 



3 



47 67 



10 



85 30 



12 



199 26 



3 



35 06 



3 



50 94 



15 



188 09 



6 



91 35 



11 



134 99 



23 



275 72 



6 



70 41 



13 



71 87 



4 



53 54 



3 



27 98 



6 



57 24 



29 



197 38 



6 



43 81 



16 



64 15 



6 



74 22 



24 



103 33 



16 



118 50 



15 



82 44 



6 



48 89 



9 



44 81 



8 



20 78 



20 



118 61 



8 



40 75 



9 



80 91 







9 



51 32 



579 J 



4,643 70 





32 60 







689 



55,782 36 



Av.. ..$8 39 



IS 



93. 



1893. 





1893. 



1893. 



Boxes.Amount. 



Boxes.Amount. 



Boxes.Amount. Boxes. Am't. 



4 



$27 63 



8 



$83 05 



7 



$138 19 





$72 95 



14 



108 68 



13 



119 53 



3 



50 31 



2 



22 00 



14 



199 66 



30 



158 42 



10 



147 21 



12 



loo 78 



4 



217 29 



34 



242 59 



4 



62 57 



4 



28 26 



53 



251 41 



21 



152 91 



2 



38 32 



6 



109 47 



10 



42 77 



20 



239 50 



8 



103 29 



10 



70 84 



41 



190 67 



ftp 



54 55 



4 



47 06 



20 



103 25 



37 



323 50 



11 



47 38 



6 



72 31 



10 



183 95 



39 



399 82 



23 



241 96 



2 



14 82 



10 



09 31 





55 37 



8 



93 86 



8 



56 39 



30 



55 68 



25 



334 11 



4 



77 35 



4 



15 30 



12 



121 25 















606 $5 



408 26 











A 















•WEAKFISH. 









Year. 



Catch. 





Year. 





Catch. 





1884 





16,470 





1889 





47,495 





1885 

 1886 

 1887 

 1888 





17,517 



-97,419 



1890 





28,676 



538 





11,6S2 



1891 





20,023 





15,375 



1892 





28,026 





36,375- 



1893 





21,318-145 



were none on our coast. There were some in the rivers, but 

 not outside. I have fished from the ocean, six miles at sea 

 and never caught a bluefish for a whole summer sometimes, 

 nor a weakfish. For the last three to five years the weak- 

 fish have been coming on our coast thicker an i thicker. 



It has been said here to-day by several people of Asbury 

 Park that there will not be any more pounds. It don't pay 

 them to put in a pound south of Asbury Park. Then, again, 

 they say that the pounds killed Barnegat Bay, so they set 

 these pounds just as close to the inlet as they can sec them 

 and catch the fish in Barnegat Bay. North of Barnegat Bay 

 the closest pound to Barnegat Inlet is about 12 miles and 

 the closest pound south of Barnegat Inlet is about 60 miles. 



If those two pounds, one 12 and the other 60 miles distant, 

 shuts off the fish of Barnegat Bav, then I don't know what I 

 am talking about'. 



Then, again, they said last summer there were no fish in 

 Barnegat Bay, could not catch any fish. In the New York 

 Herald it said that the sail boats that carried out excur- 

 sions for fishing in Barnegat Bay year before last, could 

 make from !g400 to $600 for the summer. Last summer they 

 could not make anything. 



Last winter they passed a law in the New Jersey Legisla- 

 ture that there should not be any nets in Barnegat Bay. 

 Year before that there were plenty of fish. Last year there- 

 were no seines or nets in Barnegat Bay and the anglers 

 could not catch anything. 



I remember on our South Shrewsbury River there were* 

 about a dozen families made a living fishing in the river,, 

 and for the last year there were no nets and there were no> 

 fish there. They don't catch any. You say the pound has 

 caught them all. They say the bluefish don't come in to the 

 shore. It is a known fact that the fishermen go outside andl 

 bait these bluefish and hold them there. They won't come 

 into the shore as long as this bait is there. The bait also 

 feeds the sea bass and you can see them solid in the water 

 so full of bait they won't bite When the boats are on the 

 shore the slicks are there still and hold them there. That 

 is the reason they don't come in to the shore. It has been 

 said here again they can catch these large weakfish with a 

 hook and line. I have rowed through them for miles, schools 

 of weakfish, and never caught any. Squid they have for a 

 bait for them. There will be schools of them but you can- 

 not catch any large weakfish. 



Mr. Potter, of New Jersey, gave the following informa- 

 tion in answer to questions asked him by Mr. Roosevelt: 



Q. How many pounds between Long Branch and Ocean 

 Beach? A. There are nine, nine in seven miles. 



Q. What is the average catch? A. I have a statement 

 here which gives the number of fish caught in the pound in 

 five years, from year to year, by C. A. Valentine. In 1889 he 

 caught 698 boxes and 108 barrels (a box will average about 

 3501 bs. and a barrel about 2001bs.); in 1890 he caught 709 

 boxes and 103 barrels; in 1891 he caught 735 boxes and 83 

 barrels; in 1892 he caught 980 boxes and 112 barrels; in 1893; 

 865 boxes and 56 barrels. You remember there was a heavy 

 storm in August which took out all the pounds, poles andl 

 everything almost, and it took two weeks to get them in. 

 again and that cut off the fishing in 1893. 



Asked by Mr. Hulett, of Asbury Park: 



Q. What I want to know is this: How much fish are de- 

 frayed during the week? A. How many fish destroyed? 



Q. Yes, in this pound during the week? A. When we catch 

 weakfish we don't catch anything else. 



Q. How many weakfish are destroyed and other fish? A. 

 They don't destroy weakfish. They destroy other fish, 



Q. I beg to differ with you. I wanted to know what your 

 idea was? A. They don't destroy any. 



Q. Is it not so that there are tons of fish destroyed in those 

 pound nets every week? A. No, there are not tons of fish 

 caught every week. I have fished for two or three weeks 

 and did not catch over 501 bs. a day. 



Q. Your pound net will hold 5,000 weakfish? I want to 

 get the average a day and how much is destroyed out of that 

 catch, the catch in the nets and the average destruction? 



I. Spencer Leaming, of New Jersey, asked the following 

 questions of Mr. Potter: 



Q. In giving your statistics of Valentine & Co. are you 

 acquainted with the gentlemen and their fisheries? A. Yes, 

 sir; I am one of the partners. 



Q. Then in giving your statistics in 1889 you say you 

 caught some 300 or 400 boxes, but you don't say anything in. 

 regard to your pounds. Are your pounds any larger ormore 

 numerous? A. No larger. 



Q. You have not increased them in quantity? A. No. 



Geore M. Vail, of Orient, L. I., read the following paper- 

 prepared by 



H. A. Reeves: We do not know what ultimate object or- 

 purpose the proposed congress may have In so far as the- 

 formal call goes, there is nothing to afford a basis for even 

 conjecture. It merely alleges that there is a "growing scarcity 

 of ediblefishes" along the coast and asks for a conference to- 

 see if the cause or causes and remedy or remedies cannot be; 

 discovered and applied. 



To such an inquiry, honestly conducted by men of true* 

 scientific spirit and capacity, no objection would be raised.. 

 The trap-fishermen of eastern Long Island (and no doubt 

 those from other sections would agree with them) will wel- 

 come any scientific investigation, if honest and complete, 

 into the questions at issue between themselves and others, 

 who, as they believe, through imperfect information or in- 

 adequate consideration, oppose the taking of food fishes by 

 means of nets, 



Outside of the call, as is well known, the leading idea of 

 some promoters of this congress is to restrict or to stop 

 altogether the use of nets for taking the edible fishes of the 

 sea. 



They allege that these fishes are "growing scarce along the 

 coast line," and they maintain that this alleged scarcity is 

 due to what they "call the destructive effect of net fishing; 

 they therefore demand that the use of nets be restrained or 

 prohibited by legislation uniform on the part of all the sea- 

 board States, or, if that cannot be obtained, by the Federal 

 Congress. 



With this as the publicly disclosed purpose of some, at 

 least, among the movers of the congress, we may without 

 hesitat ion or delay proceed to define the position held by the 

 trap fishermen for whom we speak. 



They must be understood in the outset as not objecting to 

 a scientific inquiry into the facts relating to their business, 

 and by such an inquiry, provided only that it be a full and 

 fair one, they are willing to stand. 



Obviously, before any general measure of restriction 

 should be enacted, whether by the States or the Federal 

 Legislature, there ought to be a previous collection and col- 

 location of facts pertaining to the subject, and. an exhaustive 

 study and analysis of those facts by scientists capable of 

 duly weighing and faithfully presenting the results of their 

 study. 



When that has been done it will be possible to enter on the 

 domain of legislation with some approach to that degree of 

 certainty which ought always to precede legislation. 



No legislator ought to be asked to help enact a measure as 

 to whose actual bearing and effect there is not a reasonable 

 degree of certainty. To legislate in the dark, with no fairly 

 probable result in sight, would be to make mischief only, 

 without effecting any useful end. 



Hence, we insist that before any proposed system of at- 

 tempted uniform legislation be advocated, much less entered 

 upon, the persons responsible for such an attempt must be 

 prepared with real and not merely supposed scientific data 

 sufficient to warrant the enactment of what they desire. 



In this matter, so far as the trap fisheries of eastern Long 

 Island are concerned, we affirm and stand ready to establish 

 by proofs satisfactory to any candid mind: 



I. There is no "growing scarcity" and no scarcity at all, in 

 the supply of edible fishes resorting to Gardiner's and Peconic 

 bays. The supply is as great now as it ever was, although 

 during the past 13 years the number of traps on the shores of 

 those bays has multiplied fourfold. 



Vail Bros., of Orient, who have followed the business of 

 trap fishing at the same place on Gardiner's Bay for thirty- 

 seven years, during thirteen years or since 1880, have kept a 

 careful record of the catch of fish by boxes, and of the prices 

 they have brought in the market. This complete register of 

 their business shows that, with only one more trap in use in 

 1893 than in 1880, they took during 1893 more than twice as 

 many as in 1880, notwithstanding the fact that a number of 



