•Tan. 2?, 1894.] 



FOREST AND STREAM. 



77 



my life whenever I could get the opportunity. My business 

 is to spend money in Ashing, not to make it. At the same 

 time, I have come in contact with fishermen, have been well 

 acquainted with these men who get their living by fishing, 

 and I ought to know something about it. Iam satisfied these 

 men have to use the pound nets. You cannot supply by hook 

 and line the demand for fish. It must be done In' these im- 

 proved appliauces. There should bean opportunity, of course, 

 to give the fish a fair chance to spawn, and that,' I presume, 

 is really the object of this meeting — to devise some method 

 by which the fish may be allowed freer development in the 

 matter of reproduction, so the spawn may have a fair chance 

 to batch. It is a very easy matter to make statements, but 

 very difficult to devise some method by which to accomplish 

 desired results. I believe the weir, pound and purse nets 

 should remain. There are places like Buzzard's Bay where 

 they should be prohibited, and I think this is the time to dis- 

 cuss the methods by which they may be prohibited, that the 

 spawning grounds may be open and "easy of access. I do not 

 believe that man can decrease the fish of the ocean; and I 

 wish to say here, in answer to something that has been said 

 about the Churches, that I have a couple of boys who have 

 been fishermen ever since they were able to travel alone. I 

 sent them out on Church's steamers on several occasions 

 when they were catching menhaden. Those boys were on 

 board when 2,000 barrels of menhaden were taken on atrip, 

 and they could not pick enough edible fish out of the lot to 

 feed the crew. They came back and reported all the facts to 

 me. It is, therefore, not true, that they take large supplies of 

 food fish when they are catching menhaden, or that they 

 catch every kind of food fish. The Churches are truthful 

 men and they do not make statements which are not true. 



N. B. Chuech, of Rhode Island, followed Mr. Bliss, and 

 said: There is one statement I want to make in contradiction 

 of Mr. McDonald's assertion in regard to the spawning of 

 menhaden on the coast of New England. I am a practical 

 fisherman and have fished for thirty years along the coast, 

 from Maine to Hatteras. It has always been known by those 

 who are familiar with the menhaden fishery that there is a 

 certain body of fish of that species on the co'ast in the spring 

 that are full of spawn. We have al ways argued that t he fish 

 do -not spawn on the New England coast, but we made that 

 statement in the broad sense of the term. 



In the year 1S92, contrary to all the observations that have 

 ever been made, there was an immense body of fish struck 

 on the coast about May 17, in the vicinity of " Barnegat, that 

 went into the bays and estuaries, and those fish were full of 

 spawn. It was known to all the fishermen on the coast that 

 this was something out of the general run, and against all 

 the statements that we had ever advanced. That was the 

 fact, and no one can contradict it. 



From my observation, 90$ of the menhaden that leave the 

 coast in the fall are mature or nearly mature with spawn. 

 I have been master of a large fishing steamer, and have had 

 members of the United States Fish Commission aboard my 

 boat on purpose to investigate this subject. They have made 

 observations tvnder my own eye, and ascertained that the 

 fish leave the coast in the fall full of spawn, a fact well 

 known to all menhaden fishermen. These fish return in the 

 spring without any spawn. The conclusion to be drawn 

 from this is that they spawn after they leave the coast. I 

 have no doubt Colonel McDonald will say they go down the 

 coast and spawn in the bays of the South Atlantic States, 

 but such is not the fact. My observation is that, perhaps, 

 two years in ten, the body of large menhaden that leave in 

 the fall strike the coast near the east end of Long Island, 

 and follow down as far as Atlantic City and then disappear" 

 As a rule, however, they apparently go straight out to sea 

 when they leave the bays and sounds. I presume that 90^ 

 of the fish that go down this shore in the fall turn off the 

 coast at Brigantine Shoal. So much for the spawning 



Mr. Roosevklt— Will you kindly tell us where they 

 spawn? A. I have not the least idea. 



Qt Do you think they could spawn in the open ocean? 

 A. I can best answer that question by a story. One summer 

 I had on my vessel two boys who got into a 'hot dispute on 

 one occasion, and after contesting over the disputed matter 

 for half an hour, one of them said to the other, "I would give 

 a good deal to know what you don't know on that subject." 

 That is just the way I feel in regard to this matter— I would 

 like to know all that others don't know. 



Me. Chuech then resumed: About the bluefish— we all 

 know that bluefish were very scarce on this coast in 1887. 

 Bluefish were worth about 35 cents per pound. But in the 

 fall of that year, in September I believe, small bluefish made 

 their appearance in great numbers. I said to a member of 

 the Fish Commission: "Within five years there will be an 

 abundance of bluefish on this coast." In 188S and 1889 blue- 

 fish were caught by the boatloads and cargoes. Everywhere 

 the sea was full of bluefish. In the four years of 1SS8, 18*9 

 1890 and 1891 there was an immense body of bluefish on this 

 coast. In 1891,1 landed somewhere about forty thousand 

 or fifty thousand barrels of menhaden, and I will venture to 

 say that I could have loaded more bluefish in bulk than 

 menhaden. There were numerous schools of bluefish from 

 Delaware Bay to Portland, Maine, containing from 1,000 to 

 25,000 barrels. Still, the gentlemen here say there were no 

 bluefish. In 1887 the menhaden catch, as my brother stated 

 this morning, was the poorest we had had up to that time 

 The total result of all our fleet's fishing was about 110,000 

 barrels. The next season was phenomenal for the extraordi- 

 nary plentifullness of menhaden. I could have taken one 

 boat myself and landed at our factory the same quantity of 

 menhaden that was taken by the entire fleet the previous 

 year. This immense body of fish came in, I think, in June 

 and extended along the coast from the vicinity' of Block 

 Island to Maine. I do not think there are many of the gentle- 

 men here who appreciate the marvellous immensity of a body 

 of fish like that which I have referred to, and the most con- 

 servative estimate of which wouldseem almost beyond human 

 conception. Take a school of fish the size of this room 

 There may be one barrel, 25 barrels, or 25,000 barrels in the 

 school. Go to the masthead of your steamboat, and your eye 

 cannot reach the limit of some bodies of fish that may often 

 be seen. I have little further to say, but if any gentleman 

 wants to ask any question in regard to the fishing on this 

 coast, I am prepared to answer him. There is one other thing 

 I want to say in regard to my reply to the statement made 

 by Mr. Chamberlayne. He made the statement he did, 

 knowing that I was on record, under oath, as saying that in 

 catching menhaden we did not catch food fish to any extent 

 That will, perhaps, explain why I answered him as I did. 

 That is a matter of record, and why people laugh and scorn 

 at the idea that a man does not catch food fish when he is 

 fishing for menhaden I caunot understand. 



Me. Roosevelt— Do you mean to say you refuse to catch 

 food fish? A. I mean to say this; that in catching menha- 

 den fish we do not catch food fish. We may set a net 100ft. 

 deep in six fathoms of water but we do not catch food fish. 



Q. If you saw a school of food fish would you not catch 

 them? A. Our business is menhaden fishing. It is not un- 

 common to see a school of food fish, it is a very common 

 occurrence to see bluefish, mackerel and squeteague. There 

 have been instances when food fish were caught by mistake. 

 No man can tell the difference, at times, between squeteague 

 and menhaden when schooling. Food fish are worth from 

 1 to 10 cents a pound. Do you suppose a man who eausht a 

 thousand barrels of food fish would carry them to a fertil- 

 izer factory (to be made into fertilizer; at 25 cents per barrel, 

 when he could get so much more by selling them for food? 

 It wdl not be difficult to see this, for any one can understand 

 that we don't go fishing for fun. 



JOHN O. Lewis, of Rhode Island: I came here to represent 

 the village of Wickford, and I am sent here by our people to 

 show yon and tell you that fish for the past six years and for 



some few years previous to that have been plentiful with us. 

 The talk is now to stop the trap fishing, because it dimin- 

 ishes the quantity of fish in our waters." You stop the trap 

 fishing, and these fish which I catch, butterfish, squeteague, 

 and if you take away the traps you take away those fish 

 from me, which you cannot catch with a line. I have not 

 heard of a single instance in the waters of Wickford where 

 one has been caught with the hook, but they do catch them 

 once in a while while, fishing for blackfish. Take those fish 

 from me which you do not catch with hook and line, and 1 

 will not give a cent for trap fishing. Last summer, about 

 July 1, one day we were crossing the bay and we saw some- 

 thing in the water. We could not tell what, but by going on 

 the masthead of the boat we could look down and' see below 

 the surface weakfish, and just as far as our eyes could see to 

 show the color red in the water (you know how they show 

 red in the water), this school of fish was there. 



I can take my oath that what Mr. Church said here this 

 morning was true about weakfish, and what Mr. Sonthwick 

 has also said about weakfish being in Narragansett Bay this 

 summer, that they have never been so plentiful before since 

 I have known what a fish was. We have set this summer 

 eight traps. There were times in the summer for three weeks 

 at a time that we could not open our traps, and there were 

 some of them we could not begin to take the fish out that 

 went into them, the traps were so full we could not unhitch 

 the.lines. We would simply haul by the line and roll up be- 

 tween two sticks, and the fish we could take care of in one 

 boat we loaded in one skiff. If we could have taken those 

 fish out as we did years previous to that, I would venture to 

 say I could have caught more fish in 1893 than I ever caught 

 in my life, put them all together. Years before we could 

 clean our traps out very well, take out every fish without any 

 trouble. We could take about ten barrels, and that is as 

 many as one can take out and save and get to market in good 

 order. 





SOUNDS TAKEN BY LEWIS BEOS. 







Price— Cents. 





Price— Cents. 



18S6.. 



.. 851bs 65 1S90... 



5881bs, , 



40 



1887.. 

 1888.. 



..1541bs 65 1891... 



6501bs 



40 



..2411bs 50 1892... 



8581bs 



40 



1889.. 



..M41bs 45 1893... 





4S 



BAEEELS OF FISH CATCH BY 



LEWIS BEOS. 











1887.. 



320bbls. 1892... 





9»Sbbls. 



1889 









1890 



fi02hhls 







Remarks of Mr. Robeet WALSH: 







Me. ChAIEMAN— This question should not be approached 

 unintelligently. From the evidence of the best known and 

 most widely experienced men engaged in fishing as well as 

 from the writings and researches of the scientists and ichthy- 

 ologists of the United States Bureau of Fish and Fisheries, 

 we have in this country alone sufficient data to decide 

 whether or not repressive legislation would ba advisable. 

 But as this evidence has already been placed on record in the 

 publications of the Commissioner of Fisheries, and by the 

 statements of such men as Captain Collins, Mr. Atwood, 

 Captain Church and others, before the Senate of the United 

 States in connection with the reception of evidence concern- 

 ing the Lapham bill, I think that my appearance in the 

 matter will be more profitably confined by elucidating the 

 comparative effects of such legislation in Great Britain and 

 other European countries. 



As a matter of fact, knowledge of the habits of sea fishes 

 was very imperfect until recent years, but the economic 

 value of the supply of fish attracted considerable attention 

 from legislators aud rulers from the earliest times, and as a 

 consequence from time to time enactments progressive or 

 repressive were petitioned for and considered. For instance, 

 in 1675 the fishermen of the southern Hish coast petitioned 

 the King through Secretary Burchard that the length of the 

 nets used by the French fishermen broke the shoals of the 

 pilchards and drove them from the coast. This petition 

 prayed that the Government should restrict the use of these 

 long nets by the Frenchmen; but, for some reason or other, 

 the request of the Irish fishermen was not acceded to, and 

 the Frenchmen continued to fish for pilchards inshore and in 

 the deep sea without restraint. It is recorded in the annals 

 of Kinsale that for three years from 1675 to 1678 the supply of 

 pilchards diminished to such an extent that the native nsh- 

 ermen discontinued that industry The falling off in the 

 supply was attributed to "the depredations of the French- 

 men;" but in the following year, 1679, notwithstanding that 

 a fleet of three hundred French sail, "each boat carrying nets 

 one league in length," swept the coast with these nine 

 hundred leagues of nets uninterruptedly, previous to and 

 during the three seasons referred to, the pilchards returned 

 in "greater numbers than ever before was seen on this coast." 

 This fact is proved from the writings of Sir Robert South- 

 well, who was himself one of the signers of the petition to 

 Secretary Burchard in 1675. 



In 1881, '82 and 'S3, a somewhat similar petition was made 

 by the fishermen on the southern Irish coast concerning the 

 too early fishing for herring by the Scotch fishermen. I was 

 at that time chairman of the So nth of Ireland Fishing Com- 

 pany, and relying simply on the statements of the local fish- 

 ermen I heartily approved of their appeal for repressive 

 legislation in connection with the south of Ireland herring 

 fishery, in the shape, of instituting a close season. I had not 

 then made any research into the habits of the fishes or 

 concerning the effects of man's efforts, by any method for 

 their capture, upon the supply, and, with others who were as 

 deeply interested in the progressive development of the Irish 

 fisheries as was I, I was astounded when Professor Huxley 

 and other famous scientists, as well as the inspectors of fish- 

 eries appointed by Her Majesty's Government, pooh-poohed 

 our request, and informed us that not alone was there no 

 necessity for appointing a close season, but that from their 

 observations and investigations they had decided that the 

 supply of herrings or of other migratory fishes could not be 

 diminished by any means or appliances that could be used 

 by men for their capture. 



The fishermen and boat owners on the southern Irish coast, 

 myself among the number, felt aggrieved by this decision, 

 and it was universally predicted that the herrings would be 

 driven from our coast by the fact of the Scotch fishermen 

 plying their nets— over two thousand miles of them— before 

 the time when the Irish fishermen considered that the season 

 should begin, But no such result has happened. It is true 

 that sometimes for a season or two, or even for five or ten 

 years, the supply of herring and other migratory fishes, such 

 as mackerel, pilchard, etc., seem to disappear, altogether or 

 partially, from the coast. But, as regularly, or perhaps I 

 should say as irregularly, they return with increasing num- 

 ber's, as did the pilchards in lb'79. 



These are matters which it will be observed have come 

 under my own personal observation and with which I was 

 intimately connected. It will be understood from what I 

 have said that during the years 1880, '81 and '83, I was under 

 the impression that fishing for migratory fishes at irregular 

 periods and with destructive appliances was economically 

 dangerous to the progress of a fishing industry. But upon 

 learning the decision of the authorities to whom I refer con- 

 cerning the effect or rather the inutility of curtailing the 

 methods employed for the capture of fishes, I studied the 

 question and arrived at the conclusion that the comings and 

 goings of migratory fishes or their production cannot be in- 

 fluenced by man. 



Bearing out the statement which I have just made, and 

 upon much higher and practically unimpeachable authority, 

 the following quotation from the report of the commission 

 appointed by Her Majesty, the Queen of Great Britain, un- 



qualifiedly takes the position that the supply of migratory 

 fishes canuot be increased or diminished by man. That com- 

 mission consisted of Professor Thomas Henry Huxley, the 

 Rt. Hon. George Shaw LeFevre, and the Rt. Hon. James 

 Caird. With all the resources of the British Government at 

 their disposal and after three years of exhaustive inquiry 

 into the condition of the sea fisheries of the United Kingdom 

 of Great Britain and Ireland, these men deliberately pre- 

 sented the following report: 



"We find the laws relating to sea fisheries to be compli- 

 cated, confused and unsatisfactory; many restrictions, even 

 of late date, are never enforced; many would be extremely 

 injurious to the interests of the fishermen of the community 

 if they were enforced, and with respect to these and others, 

 the highest legal authorities are unable to decide where and 

 in what precise sense they are operative, 



"We advise that all acts of Parliament which profess to 

 regulate or restrict the modes of fishing pursued in the open 

 sea be repealed; and that unrestricted freedom of fishing be 

 pursued hereafter, and for the present we advise that all 

 acts of Parliament which profess to regulate or restrict the 

 modes of fishing pursued inshore be repealed." 



In the face of this statement, and bearing in mind the high 

 authority and the historical data at their command concern- 

 ing the condition of the fisheries which they investigated, it 

 is impossible to come to any other conclusion than that the 

 supply of migratory fishes is practically inexhausti ble. But 

 I cannot quite agree with that portion of the report 

 of the Royal Commission referred to which suggests the 

 advisability of enacting laws to permit the unrestricted 

 freedom of fishing inshore. As a matter of fact in the course 

 of his address at the International Fisheries Exhibition in 

 London in 1883, Prof. Huxley made it very plain that the 

 statements made by him and the other Commissioners re- 

 ferred chiefly to migratory fishes. Monsieur Bimbaud, one 

 of the greatest French authorities, states that the supply of 

 migratory fishes is absolutely inexhaustible and cannot be 

 affected by any means or appliances adopted bymenfortheir 

 capture. But he asserts, and it is pretty generally conceded 

 that fishes which spawn locally inshore might be depleted 

 or even exhausted by continuous or depredatory fishing. The 

 class of fishes known as inshore or local fishes does not com- 

 prise mackerel, herriug, bluefish, striped bass, whitefish, 

 menhaden, or any other of the great species that form the 

 basis of our industrial fisheries. 

 _ I shall only give one other example of the effect of repres- 

 sive legislation on the economic and industrial development 

 of fisheries, aud this example should of itself be considered 

 of serious import in the discussion of any question relating 

 to proposed restrictions, or for the, protection, of fisheries In 

 the opening of the legislative session of the Dutch Parlia- 

 ment IS60-66, the King of Holland drew attention to the fact 

 that for three hundred years, "up to 1857 the Dutch fisheries 

 were burdened with many restrictions intended for their pro- 

 tection and encouragement. The period within which her- 

 rings could be fished was limited. The places of fishing, the 

 times, the nets, and the tackle were all under regulations. 

 But the fishery languished and declined, and it was deter- 

 mined by the Legislature to try the effect of another system. 

 A law was passed in 1857 abolishing all restrictions, regula- 

 tions and enactments as to close time, trawls, nets and lines. 

 Every one was left free to fish the sea in any mode, and at 

 any time he deemed most advantageous, while a Fishery 

 Commission was established to collect the statistics of the 

 various fisheries, and report annually to the legislature on 

 all matters affecting the interests of the fisheries, 



"The result has been a steady and continuous improve- 

 ment." 



These statements comprise the result of the investigations 

 of governments and scientific and practical authorities for 

 over four centuries; and in every instance, notwithstanding 

 the erroneous ideas that existed in the minds of fishermen 

 and others, those engaged in the research decided against 

 repressive laws and established the fact that fishing with 

 nets or with any other appliances cannot influence or de- 

 crease the supply of migratory food or other fishes. 



Now, I do not believe that the gentlemen who signed the 

 petition calling this meeting fully understood the facts to 

 which I have referred, or they would not place themselves in 

 opposition to the published decisions of those great authori- 

 ties, in science and ichthyology,whom I have quoted and who 

 have in many cases made life studies of the subject which is 

 now under consideration. I notice that in the circular call- 

 ing this meeting the statement is made that during the past 

 year the spawning ground of mackerel and other migratory 

 fishes has been discovered to be local and in shore. * This 

 statement is an error— in fact it looks uncommonly like an 

 intentional error. No man knows where these migratory 

 fishes pass the winter, and after twenty years' experience 

 and investigation the best living American authorities can- 

 not definitely locate the precise ground where any of these 

 fishes spawn. 



I do not think that I can add further new matter to this 

 argument. It is the duty of the people of the United States 

 to insist through their State and National Legislatures that 

 the food fish shall be conserved and protected; but it is as 

 clear as the sun at noon that the only fisheries which can be 

 benefitted by restrictive or protective legislation are those 

 of oysters and other shell fishes, crustaceans, and those fishes 

 that are known not to be migratory. It is therefore appar- 

 ent that those who seek for the enactment of repressive legis- 

 lation have not given this matter the attention or study 

 necessary to place before the Commissioners an intelligent 

 argument, and so far as my experience and understanding of 

 the facts enable me to form an opinion, I believe it is the 

 duty of the representatives of the people to oppose by every 

 and any just means all attempts at legislation which would 

 re.-trict our fishermen in their freedom of fishing for migra- 

 tory fishes by every means at their disposal. 



However, as this question is Of such vital national import- 

 ance, and as no satisfactory solution of the problem has been 

 offered, I would suggest that the following resolution be 

 adopted by this meeting: 



(This resolution was not handed in.) 



* The circular does not seem to so state.— Ed. 



[TO BE CONTINUED.] 



First Tour to Florida via Pennsylvania Railroad. 



This year's series of Pennsylvania Railroad tours to the land of sun- 

 shine and flowers will be inaugurated on Jan. 30th, when a luxurious 

 special trial, composed entirely of Pullman sleeping and dining cars 

 will leave New York at 9:30, Trenton 11:03 A. M., Philadelphia 12:10' 

 Wilmington 12:50 P. M , and thence via the most direct route to the 

 destination point— Jacksonville. At this latter place the tourists are 

 left to follow their own inclination as to where they shall spend the 

 two weeks allotted to them. The great number of side trips that are 

 available renders a selection from which a choice may be made to suit 

 the desires of the most exacting. The unsurpassed climate according 

 with the cloudless, azure-blue sky throughout the immense confines of 

 the State, and the healthful effects to be enjoyed by a sojourn within 

 its borders are sure to be appreciated by the strong as well as the 

 feeble, in whatever direction ttiey are prompted. 



$50 from New York, gl8 from Philadelphia, and proportionate rates 

 from intermeaiate or contiguous points within a generous radius are 

 made on the most liberal basis, and include railroad fare, sleeping ac- 

 commodations, and meals en route in both directions while on the 

 special train. 



The remaining dates of the series are February I3ch and 27th and 

 March 13th and Wb%— A%1>. 



'The FoEEST AXD STREAM is put to press each week on Tues- 

 day. Correspondence intended for publication should reach 

 us ait the latest by Monday, and as much earlier as practicable \ 



