Feb. 15, 1896. 
FOREST AND STREAM. 
143 
Q.— You say In your affidavit that you distinctly noticed on Sept. 6 
that the Defender -was floating very light? A.— Yes. 
q —Do you mean by that very light as compared with what you 
had seen her before? A.— No, not with what I had seen her before, 
but her general appearance. 
Q.— I would like to get your idea of what you mean by stating that 
you noticed the Defender was floating very light? A.— My idea was 
this: that when she came into the dock instantly there was general 
conversation among our leading men, the sailing master and assist- 
ant sailing master and others; a general conversation: "How awfully 
light she looks." 
Q —"Awfully light?" A.— Oranfleld said, "Yes, she looks very much 
like our vessels going up on the slip in the winter taking out any spare 
stuff there was to take out more or less water." And I made the jok- 
ing remark, "There is no telling what she will do. Mr. Herreshoff is 
an extremely clever man, but she looks extremely light." That was 
the speaking all through. 
Q.— She looked as if she had no ballast then? A,— Oh, certainly not; 
she looked as if she were extremely light. She looked as if she was 
extremely high in the water. 
Q.— Did you go aboard of her? A.— Never. 
Q — You say that on that occasion— on Sept. 6— you carefully looked 
at the Defender from the City of Bridgeport? A.— From the City of 
Bridgeport and the Valkyrie. 
Q — How far away were they respectively from the Defender when 
vouso looked from them at the Defender? A.— A very few feet. The 
Bridgeport was at the tail end of the little jetty at the dock, and the 
Defender was with her starboard side alongside the quay, where there 
was a ship that had been burned with jute. A very few feet. 
q —Which side of the Defender was toward the dock? A.— The 
st'3.rboo>rd sid© 
Q.— Then it was her port side that you carefully looked at? A.— The 
port side, where everybody practically at the same time called atten- 
tion to the pipe hole and the bronze. 
Q —You did not row up to her from the City of Bridgeport or the 
Valkyrie at all? A.— No. 
Q.—Was the Bridgeport lying at all outside of her or on the same 
line on the dock? A.— The Bridgeport would have been practically at 
right angles to her. 
Q.— At right-augles to her ? A.— Her nose facing the Defender's nose, 
like that (describing). 
Q — At the corner of the dock, or what? A.— One alongside of the 
pier here, and the Bridgeport alongside a little jetty, if I am not mis- 
Q.— How about the relative position of the Valkyrie at that time, 
when you looked from her? A,— The Valkyrie was practically along- 
side the Bridgeport. You could walk from one to the other. 
Q.— Could you tell the size of that pipe? A.— In my mind at home, I 
carried it away as about the size of a two shilling piece. Of course, I 
can't guarantee accurately what it was. 
Q.— That would be about lin. ? A.— I suppose about that. 
Q. — And was it circular? A.— Yes. 
Q.— Did you see two pipe holes? A.— No, one. 
Q.— You, of course, formed no judgment as to what her w.l. was, 
independent of the measurement? 
Mr. Q.ennie— In the dock? 
Mr. Cboate— On Sept. 6, before the measurement was announced? 
A.— No; I thought she would be getting very near the dimensions of 
the Cup racing boat. 
Q— 90ft.? A.— 90. 
Q —But you could not rely much on your eye for that? A.— No; 
she looked a very deceiving boat indeed— looked a very small boat. 
Q. — What do you mean by saying she looked a very "deceiving" 
boat? A.— She looked a very Bmall boat, carrying an enormous 
amount of canvas. 
Q.— You did not get the idea that she was a deceiving boat? 
Mr. Qlennie— Toward the end? 
Mr. Choate— At that time? 
Mr. Qlennie— What way do you mean? 
Mr. Choate— Any way. 
Q.— What started you up so early on Sept. 71 A.— It is my usual 
hour for getting up, if not before. 
Q.— I understand you were then 300yds. away from the Defender? 
A.— I should think it must have been really less than that. It was a 
great deal too far off to see without the opera glasses properly. 
Q— You say, "The Defender coming later, took up her position 
about 300yds. ahead of the City of Bridgeport"? A.— Yes, sir. It is a 
wee bit difficult to estimate the distance. 
Q.— That was about where she lay from the time she took up her 
position until you looked at her through the opera glasses? A.— 
Yea. 
Q. — You do not know of any change of position? A.— No. 
Q,_Where was the Valkyrie at that time ? A. — The Valkyrie was on 
the port bow of the Bridgeport. Here would be the Bridgeport and 
here would be the Valkyrie and here would be the Defender (describ- 
ing)* 
q._ Which was the nearest to the Defender, the Valkyrie or the City 
of Bridgeport? A.— The Valkyrie. 
Q.— How much nearer? A.— I should think about less than half 
way. 
Q.— Lord Dunraven has put it, I think, at 200yds. That would be 
about your judgment? A.— That would be about it. 
Q.— And from neither, in your judgment, could this pipe hole be 
seen, even with glasses? A— I did not attempt to look for it with a 
glass, because I considered it too far. 
Q —What did you look at with the opera glasses? A.— It was the 
general appearance of the boat, and I did not make up my mind or 
form any definite opinion until I had waked Mr. Ratsey. 
Q —After waking Mr. Ratsey did you come to a conclusion and 
maKe up your mind? A.— We both of us came to a very decided con- 
clusion. 
Q — That she was deeper in the water than she had been when meas- 
ured? A. — The remark that we made to each other was that she 
looked really quite a different vessel. 
By Mr. Rives: 
q — Was the sun up at this time, at 5 o'clock? A.— We did not go at 
5. I turned out at 5. We did not go until 6. 
Q.—Whenwas it you first saw the Defender that morning 1 A.— I 
turned out at 5 and had my tea. I dare say possibly it would be about 
half-past 5. 
Q. — The sun would be about rising at that time? A.— I should think 
so. 
By Mr. Choate: 
Q.— From the City of Bridgeport, after you had waked Mr. Ratsey, 
did you form a conclusion, after talking with him, before you got into 
the gig ? A.— No definite conclusion, no. That is the reason I got into 
the gig. I would not commit myself. 
Q — And in your judgment, from the City of Bridgeport at that dis- 
tance, no definite conclusion could be drawn? A.— It depends upon 
the eye of the person lookiog. 
Q —It would require a capable expert, would it not, to determine 
definitely from the City of Bridgeport, 300yds. off, a difference of three 
or four inches in her immersion? A.— I do not say anything about 
three or four inches. She looked a different vessel. 
Q.— Are you sure It was the same vessel? A.— Yes. 
Q —How close to her did you go in the gig? A.— Quite close, com- 
paratively. About as far off as— half again as far off as the window, 
perhaps. 
Q.— Did you row around her? A.— No, sir, not around. Along the 
port and ahead, before going back. 
Q.— How near to the port side did you go? A.— I should think, 
roughly, about twice as far as that window from where I am now (in- 
dicating). 
Q.— You did not come in actual contact with her ? A.— No. 
Mr. Rives— How was the boat heading at that time? Lying head to 
the westward? 
The witness— I forget what the westward was. More to the north, I 
think; more towards Brooklyn. That would be north would it not? 
Lord Dunraven— That would be south. 
By Mr. Choate: 
Q.—Was her starboard sidetoward.the City of Bridgeport? A. — Yes. 
Q.— Did you row around her stern or around her bow, or both? A. — 
Beginning on the port side, we rowed practically from the stern, on 
the port side, and then straight ahead for a few yards and then home 
again. 
Q.— Did you row the whole length of her port side? A.— Ob, yes. 
Q.— And around again to the starboard side? A.— No. 
Mr. Choate— You must have got on the starboard side to get back to 
the City of Bridgeport? 
Mr. Qlennie— Why? 
Q.— Did you not say the starboard side was toward the Bridgeport? 
A. — No, head on. 
Q.— Down there at the Horseshoe, where she lay that morning — 
Mr. Rives— At this time the boats were lyinghead tojhe northward, 
according to Mr. Qlennie. 
Mr. Qlennie — Whichever way it was, they were lying the same. 
Mr. Rives— And subsequently when Lord Dunraven saw them, the 
boats had swung so that they were lying head to the westward. 
By Mr. Choate: 
Q.— What sort of weather was it there, as you remember it ? A.— 
Perfectly smooth when we went alongside.; 
Q.— Perfectly smooth? A —Perfectly smooth. 
Q.— You did not observe the ripple that Lord Dunraven spoke of? 
A. — There is a difference in the hour of the morning. There was prac- 
tically no ripple then, when we went out; no ripple and no swell. 
"!.— And no lifting? A.— No. 
.—You formed no judgment as to how much her water line had 
been extended beyond what it was at the time of the measurements 
on Friday, did you? A.— No, I have not committed myself in any way. 
It is very difficult to gauge the depth. The thing I went by most was 
just the general appearance of the vessel, and no pipe hole. 
Q.— Did you form any opinion as to how much she was immersed? 
A. — I have on one or two occasions said that I considered that she 
was immersed about an inch and a hal p , but I have not committed 
mvself. 
Q —You say you formed what opinion you did, not from determin- 
ing the degree of her immersion, nor the length of her load waterline, 
but from the general appearance of the vessel. What did you ob- 
serve except the water pipe? A.— First of all the water pipe, which 
would bring practically li^in. there; and then Mr. Ratsey and I both 
thought she was trimmed more by the stern. 
Q.— You observed nothing about the bobstay iron? A.--Jn the dock 
it looked very high. 
Q.— Did you look at it as you rowed around the Defender in the 
morning? A— The whole vessel looked as if she were lying deeper. 
Q.— I asked you if you observed particularly the bobstay iron? A.— 
Not particularly. 
Q.— Did you observe the bronze plating? A.— Yes. 
Q.— What did you observe about that? A.— I observed that the whole 
w»<y along there appeared to be less of it. 
Q.— Then you gave Lord Dunraven no particulars whatever, be- 
cause you did not observe them, except the disappearance of the pipe? 
A.— Not because I had not observed them, but because he was going 
to look himself. He told me he was going to look himself. 
Q.— You did not tell him about the pipe then? A.— Not that I am 
aware of. 
Q — Did you see Mr. Fish when he came on board? A.— Yes. 
Q.—Was he in your sight until he left the boat? A.— Not if he was 
down below and I was on deck. 
Q.— How much of the day did you see him? A.— I cannot say 
really. 
Q.— How many times did you see him in conversation with Lord 
Dunraven? A.— I really cannot say ; several times. 
Q. — Did you see him writing? A. — No. 
Q. — Did you see Mr. Kersey bring him a piece of paper? A.— Not 
that I remember. 
Q_ Were you present at the remeasurement on Sunday? A.— Yes. 
Q. — And I understand your testimony to be that you saw the pipe 
hole just as you did on the Friday? A.— I considered the vessel looked 
identically the same. 
Q.— Lying very light? You thought she was floating very light? A. 
—1 say, identically the same. 
Q.— Did you not see some lead put into the Defend at the Basin? A. 
—No. 
Q.— Or into the Valkyrie? A.— I saw Valkyrie's lying on the floor. 
I never saw the Defender's and never knew that they had any put in 
until just lately. 
Q,— Do you know how long the Hattie Palmer lay alongside the 
Defender at the Hook? A.— No, only by hearsay from our second 
mate. 
Q.—Was it your second mate who gave you the information that she 
lay thereuntil 1 o'clock in the morning? A.— That is what he told Mr. 
Ratsey and myself; or until midnight, or sometime— I think he said 1 
o'clock. 
Q.— Do you know how long she lay alongside at Bay Ridge the night 
after the race? A.— No, sir. 
Q.— I suppose you did not regard it as any of your business to do 
anything about this difference between the Defender, as she was when 
remeasured and as she was on the race? You had no function to per- 
form? A.— Not the slightest. 
The Chairman— Anything further from Mr. Glennle? 
Mr. Askwith— No, I have no further questions to ask. 
By Mr. Rives: 
Q_ Where did the Valkyrie go that night of Saturday? Was she at 
Bay Ridge? A.— She went to Bay Ridge. 
Q.— Did you see the Defender up there? A.— I won't be certain. I 
think the Defender lay a little bit ahead of us. 
Q.— Not far off? A.— Not very far. 
By Mr. Whitney: 
Q. — There was a pretty light wind at the first race, was there not? 
A. — The first race was a light wind and the remains of a Bea which left 
a nasty swell. 
Q.— Had you seen the Defender carrying her sail in any heavy 
weather before in the trial races? A. — Yes; the day that she broke 
her mast, I believe, or they were afraid of her mast. I heard some- 
thing of that kind. 
Q.— What did you think of her stability and ability to carry sails? 
Mr. Glennie— What did I think about her? 
Mr. Whitney— Yes. 
A.— I thought she was a beautiful vessel. 
Q.— I mean as to that point. I will ask you this question: What 
effect do you think, as it afterward turned out, the deeper immersion 
would have had in regard to her speed on day of the first race? 
Mr. Qlennie— The deeper immersion than what? 
Mr. Whitney— Than her true line? 
A.— I should think that no boat would sail better on a deeper im- 
mersion than her true lines. The question is: What are the true 
lines? 
Q.— In light weather like that— you assume that she was below her 
measured line and the lines on which she sailed in subsequent races, 
do you not? A.— 1 do not assume that she was below her proper line 
at any time. 
Q.— I thought you did, below the line at which she had been meas- 
ured—do you not? A.— Not necessarily below her proper line. sir. 
Q —She certainly was entitled to race on the lines in which she was 
measured, was she not? A. — Certainly. 
Q.— I understand you to suppose that in the meantime she had had 
ballast put in? A.— I do not know that she had. 
Q.— So that she was lower, or at all events was lower in the water 
than when she was measured? A.— She looked lower in the water. 
Q. — What effect on that day, as it turned out. do you think it could 
have had upon her spped? A.— Oh, I really do not know. 
Q.— Would it have Increased or decreased her speed? A.— It is very 
hard to say. 
q —Do you think it would be an advantage or disadvantage to 
forge through the water, on that day with the same amount of 
sailB, with a larger hull? A.— I should think very likely, with a heavy 
swell, the slight extra weight might be better, possibly. 
Q— Is that your judgment? A.— Well, I really do not know. My 
judgment does not go for much. 
Q — I was only asking for your judgment as a yachtsman? A.— It is 
a pretty hard question to answer, sir. 
Q.— You would not like to express an opinion. Mind you, I suppose 
the idea of additional ballast is to give more stability in neavy weather 
is it not? A. — Certainly. 
Q.— You thought, as the wind blew that night, it was going to be a 
heavy- weather day? A.— So thay told me. 
Q.— Did not that condition arise from that? A.— I had been so de- 
ceived by the weather ever since I had arrived that I would not ex- 
press any opinion, because every time they said it was going to blow 
it turned out to be a calm. 
Q. — Judging by your statement that all night there was a promise 
of neavy weather the next day—. A.— It would be so in our country. 
It looked as if there was to be a breeze, and very heavy, and lt,was 
not the fact, ( 
Q.— Did you not think from that fact that they were going to get 
more stability by putting in heavier ballast? A. — I never gave the 
thing a thought. 
Q,— Did you form in your own mind an opinion as to how this deeper 
immersion had been caused? A.— No, I did not. I did not know what 
to think. We have had.trouble in England, and sometimes it has been 
water, sometimes it has been not taking the gear out, sometimes it 
has been a little extra lead. There have been forty and one ways. 
Q. — Did you form any idea how much must have been put in her to 
cause the immersion that was caused? A. — No; I am told that— my 
estimate would have been, roughly, I suppose about six tons. 
Q — Then you did form the opinion that after she was measured on 
Friday six tons were imported into hsr and taken out again before 
the measurement on Sunday, did you not? A.— I suppose it will have 
to be answered yes. 
Q.— And you could believe that in this way a fraud had been com- 
mitted ? A.— I do not know about the word fraud. I am sorry to say 
that these things have happened in England; and that is the reason 
of putting on external marks in England. 
Q.— It must have been intentional in your judgment? A.— It would 
hardly have got there by itself. 
Q.— It must have been carried in? A.— Not necessarily carried in. 
Q.— Do you know whether, when you made your observation, the 
bedding had been taken off the Defender, when you went down at 6 
o'clock in the gig ? A.— No. 
Mr. Askwith— In obtaining as much information as we can to lay be- 
fore this commission, I have here various affidavits of the crew of 
the Valkyrie, which I do not think it is necessary for me to read at 
full length. What they go to show is that until 11:30 the Hattie 
Palmer was lying alongside the Defender, and work was going on 
upon Defender throughout the night; that a knocking, and apparently 
movements of different kinds were going on upon the Def enaer. That 
was what was noticed from the deck of the Valkyrie. 
Mr. Choate— During what time do they say? Up to what hour? A. 
—During the time that the Hattie Palmer was there beside her. 
Mr. Choate— What time do tbey give— up to what hour? Midnight 
or morning? 
Mr. Askwith— Perhaps it would be more simple, really, to read 
them. The first is of William Russell, Sidney street, Brightlingsea, 
yachtsman. 
I, William Russell, of Sidney street, Brightlingsea, in the County of 
Essex, England, yachtsman, do solemnly and sincerely declare that: 
1. I am now in the service of Mr. Walker, the owner of the yacht 
Ailsa, lying at Fay's Yard, in the town of Southampton, as an A. B. 
2. In September, 1895, I was an A. B. on the yacht Valkyrie in 
America. 
3. I was on watch on board the Valkyrie from 8 to 10 o'clock in the 
evening of Sept. 6. During that time the Hattie Palmer was along- 
side the Defender, and I saw lights during the whole of that time pass- 
ing between the Defender and the Hattie Palmer. 
And I make this solemn declaration conscientiously, believing the 
same to be true, and by virtue of the provisions of the Statutory 
Declarations Act 1835. William Russell. 
Declared at the Town and 
County of the Town of South- 
ampton, this tenth day of De- 
cember, one thousand eight 
hundred and ninety-five, Before me, 
E. T. WB3TLAK.E, 
A Commissioner for Oaths in England. 
Mr. Askwith— The next one is the affidavit of Luther Qould, yachts- 
man. 
I, Luther Gould, of Silcott street, Brightlingsea, in the County of 
Essex, England, yachtsman, do solemnly and sincerely declare that: 
1. I am now in the service of Mr. Walker, owner of the yacht Ailsa, 
lying at Fay's Yard, in the Town of Southampton, as A. B. 
2.1 was second mate of the Valkyrie in America in September, 
1895. 
3. On the night of Sept. 6, 1895, 1 was in charge of the anchor watch 
on board the Valkyrie. I took charge of the watch at about 8:30 or 9 
o'clock and remained in charge of that watch till about 5:30 on the 
morning of the 7th. I did not turn in before 12 at midnight on the 
6th. I went on deck at intervals up to about 5:30 on the morning of 
the 7th. 
4. I observed the Hattie Palmer lying alongside the Defender at 
about 10 o'clock, and sheremained alongside until about half past 11 
that night, and a light was passing between the Defender and the Hat- 
tie Palmer until half past 11 that night. 
And I make this solemn declaration conscientiously, believing the 
same to be true, and by virtue of the provisions of the Statutory 
Declarations Act 1835. Luther Gould. 
Declared at the Town and Coun- 
ty of the Town of Southamp- 
ton, this 10th day of December, 
1895, before me, E. T. Westlake, 
A Commissioner for Oaths in England. 
Mr. Askwith— The next one is John Clark, able seaman: 
I, John Clark, of 1 Williams Walk, Colchester, in the County of 
Essex, able seaman, do solemnly and sincerely declare as follows: 
1. In August, 1895, I went to America as one of the crew of the 
Valkyrie. 
2. On the night of Sept. 6, 1895, 1 went on board the Valkyrie about 
6 o'clock, and was at various times between 6 and 10 o'clock on deck, 
and I saw the Hattie Palmer lying] alongside the Defender. At 10 
o'clock I went on duty in the anchor watch until 12 o'clock, and dur- 
ing those two hours I was on deck continuously. 
3. From about 8 o'clock that evening until about half past 11 1 saw 
from time to time a light passing between the Defender and the Hat- 
tie Palmer. At about half past 11 the Hattie Palmer left the Defender 
and made her anchor about;i00yds. from the Defender. 
4. After the Hattie Palmer had left the Defender, and 'up to 12 
o'clock, when I went below, a light was moving about the deck of 
Defender, and I heard men moving about on her deck. 
And I make this solemn declaration conscientiously, believing the 
same to be true, and by virtue of the provisions of the Statutory 
Declarations Act 1835. 
John Clark. 
Declared at No. 8 Ely Place, Hol- 
born, in the County of Middle- 
sex, this 10th day of December, 
1895, before me, Wm. Jaques, Jr., 
A Commissioner to Administer Oaths. 
Mr. Askwith— The next is the affidavit of William Henry Green, 
able seaman: 
I, William Henry Green, of West street, Wyvenhoe, in the County 
of Essex, able seaman, do solemnly and sincerely declare as follows: 
1. In August, 1895, 1 went to America as one of the crew of the 
Valkyrie. 
2. On the night of Sept. 6, 1895, 1 went on board the Valkyrie about 
6 o'clock, and was on the deck at various times until 10 o'clock, when 
I tnrued in. 
3. I was on duty in the anchor watch from 2 o'clock, when I relieved 
Roper, until 4 o'clock. 
4. Between 2 and 4 o'clock I was on de3k continuously, and I saw a 
light moving about the deck of Defender during my watch; I also saw 
men moving about and heard the sounds of knocking on board 
Defender. 
And I make this solemn declaration conscientiously, believing the 
same to be true, and by virtue of the Statutory Declarations Act 1835. 
The mark of 
Declared at 8 Ely Place.Holborn 
in the County of London, this 
10th day of December, 1895, I 
having first truly, distinctly 
and audibly read over the con- 
tents of this declaration to the 
declarant, who appeared per- 
fectly to understand the same 
and made his mark thereto in 
my presence. 
X 
William Henry Green. 
Wm. Jaques, Jr., 
A Commissioner for Oaths. 
Mr. Askwith— The next is that of Edward Roper, able seaman. 
I, Edward Roper, of Chapel street, Ro;v hedge, in the County of 
Essex, able seaman, do solemnly and sincerely declare as follows: 
1. In August, 1895, I went to America as one of the crew of the 
Valkyrie. 
2. On the night of Sept. 6, 1895, I went on board the Valkyrie, about 
6 o'clock, and was at various times on deck until about half past 8, 
when I turned in. I saw the Hattie Palmer lying alongside Defender. 
3. At 12 o'clock I went on duty in the anchor watch and relieved 
John Clark. I remained on duty and was on deck continuously from 
12 till 2. 
The Hattie Palmer was then lying about 100yds. from the Defender. 
4. During my watch, viz., from 12 till 2 o'clock, I saw a light moving 
about the deck of the Defender and men moving about, but I could not 
see what they were doing. 
And I make this solemn declaration consciensiously, believing the 
same to be true, and by virtue of the provisions of the Statutory 
Declarations Act 1835. Edward Roper, 
Declared at No. 8 Ely Place, Hol- 
born, in the County of Middle- 
sex, this 10th day of Decem- 
ber, 1895, before me, Wm. Jaques, Jr., 
A Commissioner to Administer Oaths. 
Mr. Askwith — That is the information that Lord Dunraven is able 
to give to this commission. He takes the attitude that it is now impos- 
sible for this complaint of his, made at the time, lo be verified; that 
he has given what assistance he can, and has come to America to 
give such assistance as he can in the matter. He does not take the 
position of prosecuting any person or of proving any more than sim- 
ply the nature of his complaint, and that he reiterated, on Nov. 9. a 
complaint stated on Sept. 7, and not then examined. And any assist- 
ance further that we can give in the course of the inquiry, of course 
we have taken the position that we shall give; but we do not propose 
to go into the question of attempting, without evidence, which we 
cannot now obtain, to attack the statements which we have no ma- 
terial to properly investigate. We must leave investigation to the 
Committee, with such assistance as we are able to give tbem. 
Mr. Rives— Between now and to-morrow morning could you and the 
other gentlemen mark on one of the charts there the points where the 
Defender anchored during the night of Friday, and also the points 
where the race started and ended on Saturday ? We would like to get 
your judgment about that. 
Mr. Askwith— What time on Friday? 
Mr. Rives— Mark on the chart the anchorage of the Defender on 
Friday night, and also the point where the race ended on Saturday. 
There has been some question as to the distance she had to tow up, 
and so on. I think there would be no dispute about that, but if you 
could mark it on the chart and show it, it would be an advantage. 
Lord Dunraven— You want us to mark the position of the vessels as 
they lay in the Horseshoe? 
Mr. Rives— As they lay in the Horseshoe and also the point where 
the race ended on Saturday. A question has arisen as to the distance 
you had to tow up. We would like to have it bo that it could be 
agreed upon by all parties, where that was. 
Lord Dunraven— The race ended at the Lightship? 
Mr. Rives — No, not on Saturday. It ended about 3 miles northeaBt 
of the village of Seabright. It ended where it started. 
Lord Dunraven— Yep, that is so. We will do our best to do that. 
Mr. Askwith— I will inquire of Lord Dunraven and Mr. Qlennie as to 
the positions. 
Lord Dunraven— We will endeavor to do so. 
Then the opening of the defense, as given last week, followed. 
