£02 
FOREST AND STREAM. 
[March 7, 1898. 
Though long deferred, the final punishment of Lord Dunraven at 
t he hands of the New York T. C. has at last taken place, and is severe 
enough to satisfy even those who for a long time have found fault 
with the club for its delay and with the special committee for its 
leniency. It certainly cannot be urged against the club that it has 
acted either precipitately or unfairly. Lord Dunraven has been given 
every opportunity, in the first place, to prove his charges, to demand 
all possible evidence that might help his case, and to examine all the 
witnesses of the other side; in the second place, he has had ample 
time to consider the complete evidence, the finding of the committee, 
and to seek advice of his friends at home. The fears that have been 
openly expressed that when It came to the final action the club would 
back down, and that Lord Dunraven would be allowed to escape scot 
free under some trivial excuse, like another recent offender against it, 
find no indorsement in the resolution under which his name was 
dropped from the rolls. This resolution even goes so far as to give 
the lie direct to his Lordship, accusing him of "numerous misrepre 
sentations of fact," of the most of which "he has been forced himself 
to admit the untruth." 
Thb various letters from Lord Dunraven throw no new light on any 
point, and, as we suggested two weeks since, they contain not the 
slightest intimation of apology or retraction. The one to Mr. Phelps 
contains a statement which is in every way characteristic of Lord 
Dunraven's method of argument; that relating to the employment of 
a diagram to prove that he did not see what he did see. This absurd^ 
illogical and childish statement is disposed of by the special commit- 
tee in its letter to Com. Brown; and a look at the evidence will show 
that the matter may be stated thus: Lord Dunraven and his witnesses 
actually saw that one side of the yacht was higher— or lower— at cer- 
tain times, and claimed that this proved a less or greater total im- 
mersion. The diagrams and other evidence before the committee 
showed that the comparatively slight elevation or depression of owe 
Side, which, it is admitted, was seen by Lord Dunraven, would be the 
natural consequence of such a slight heeling of the yacht one way or 
the other as must happen from time to time with the ordinary move- 
ments of crew, boom and other legitimate weights. It was also 
proven that to accomplish the same variations of height by the bodily 
immersion or emersion of the yacht on an even keel would have re- 
quired means which, it was proven, were not used. 
The comments of the principal British papers, with a few notable 
exceptions, have been against Lord Dunraven and in favor of the re- 
port of the committee, and now they take a similar stand as regards 
his expulsion. 
What we have seen, however, of clippings from the smaller local 
papers of England and Scotland goes to show that, as we have from 
the first contended, the special committee made a serious error and 
defeated its own ends by the futile attempts at utter secrecy. These 
smaller papers have not seen the whole evidence or any part of it . 
they are entirely ignorant of its details, and their judgment is based 
solely on the report of the special committee. This of itself, unsup, 
ported by the evidence, gives a very inadequate idea of the investiga- 
tion, and many hostile comments are based upon it. 
Had the sittings of the committee been open to the press, as the im- 
portance and the national character of the case required, the same 
course would have been followed as in trials in a court of law— a sten- 
ographic report of all the material points of the evidence would have 
been published each day by both American and British journals, and 
the every-day reader would have had access to the bulk of the evi- 
dence. As the matter was actually arranged, while the members of 
the New York Y. C. and a few other yachtsmen are now able to read 
the evidence at their leisure, the world at large has no access to it. It 
i s for this reason that we have lately devoted so much space to the 
publication of the evidence of the more important witnesses; but, 
though we shall continue the evidence for a week or two longer, there 
is much that is both important and interesting which we are compelled 
to omit for lack of more space. 
The continuance of the evidence which we print this week discloses 
one very interesting fact that has thus far been unknown: that an at- 
tempt was made, by Mr. Watson and measurer Hyslop, to measure 
Valkyrie II. by lamplight on the night of Wednesday, the day preced- 
i ng Lord Dunraven's withdrawal from the races. An amount of bal- 
ast, from 1 to Vfa tons, was taken out of the yacht on Wednesday, 
when she was docked in the Erie Basin, in the hopes of improving her 
in the next race, and Lord Dunraven was desirous of knowing the 
effect on her measurement. It was proposed to have her afloat before 
night, but it was 10 P. M, before she was ready for measurement. The 
attempt was made to adjust the batten by lantern light, but Mr. Wat- 
son, after trial, agreed that it was impossible. 
This offers additional evidence that Lord Dunraven was fully pre- 
pared to start next day until the adverse decision of. Defender's pro- 
test was made public. 
It will be remembered that Valkyrie II. shipped about 2 tons of bal- 
last on the eve of her last race in 1893, a perfectly legitimate proceed- 
ing, as was this change in the ballast of Valkyrie III. This is interest- 
ing in connection with Mr. Brand's various complaints of changes of 
ballast in Ethelwynn, as showing the recognized practice in racing. 
The Dunraven Inquiry. 
TESTIMONY OF OAFT. HAFF AND MEASURER HYSLOP. 
After being called to the stand, as narrated last week, Capt. Haff 
was asked to step aside for a time, and Mr. Herreshoff was recalled 
he being desirous of returning home. 
Nathaniel G. Herreshoff , recalled as a witness on behalf of Mr, Iselin. 
testified as follows: ' 
By Mr. Ohoate: 
Q.-It seems that you gave Mr. Iselin some weights of the tanks. 
Were they estimates, or actually ascertained in the construction? A.— 
The weights given to him were the actual weights. They were esti- 
mated and weighed besides. 
. Q-^, How were tnose wa ter tanks fastened, if at all, into the vessel? 
A.— The water tank was fastened— it fits in a V-shaped place perma- 
nently, and comes close up under the cabin floor, so that it can rise 
but very little. Besides that there are cleats from the cabin floor to 
the frame to hold it into place. 
J « r - S i y eS vT WiU you ^ ^ speak a little louder? It is sometimes 
difficult to hear you over here. 
By Mr. Askwith: 
, Q'-Tnese plans are not taken from the original plans of the De- 
fender? A.— No, not at all. 
Q-— You know nothing about their construction -about their being- 
made? A.— No; they were not made under my direction. They were 
made under the direction of Mr. Iselin. ' 
Q.— Are the working drawings of the Defender in existence? A.— 
Certainly. 
Q.— Are they in your possession? A.— Not here. 
Q.— Are they in your possession? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q — Can you tell from your knowledge of the Defender what would 
be the necessary weight to lengthen her waterline 1ft. ? A.— I haven't 
any figures. For 1ft. length of waterline? 
Mr. Askwith— Yes. 
A. (Continued)— I could make a rough estimation 
Q.— What is your rough estimate? A,— I have made an estimation 
for lin. in depth and Sin. in depth, and 1ft. would be about li^in 
immersion. 7S 
Q.— One foot would be about l^in. immersion? A,— Yes, sir. 
Q.— What weight would be required for that? A.— I think I have a 
memorandum that would assist me. It would be a little over four 
tons and a half. 
Q.— As much as that? A.— Yes, sir, 
Q —How much would 4in. deeper increase her load waterline? A.— 
It would increase her load waterline about 32in. 
Q,— As much as that? A. — Yes, sir. 
Q.— How much would Sin. increase her load waterline? A.— About 
24. 
Q.— And 2in. ? A.— Sixteen. 
Q.— And lin.? A.— Eight. 
Q-— Supposing the trim alone was altered and the vessel put 2in. by 
the head, how much would that lengthen the load waterline? A.— 
Very little. 
Q — How much if she was put 3 or 4in. by the stern? A.— Very little 
eitner way. 
k. Q.— What do you mean by very little? A.— Perhaps a fraction of an 
inch. 
I By Mr. Whitney: 
I Q.— Your meaning is, her line would increase as much at one end as 
it would lose at the other? A.— Precisely ; yes, sir. It is about the 
same angle at each end, and of course the waterline is a little fuller 
at the stern, so that the immersion of the stern would carry the bow 
out a little more. 
By Mr. Choate: 
Q.— If she went down at one end she would go up at the other to a 
certain degree? A.— Yes, sir, 
By Mr. Askwith: 
Q. — How much weight would be required for this— suppose it was 
placed in the best position for lengthening the load waterline — to sink 
the vessel lin. or lj^in. so as to cover this pipe and at the same time 
set her, say, 3 or 4in. at the stern? A.— I hardly understand that ques- 
tion. It is a little complicated. 
Q.— How much weight would be required, if placed in the best posi- 
tion for lengthening the load waterline, to sink the vessel lin. or lj^in. 
so as to cover the alleged pipe, and at the same time set her 3 or 4in. at 
the stern? A. — I am unable to answer that. 
Q.— You are unable to answer the question ? A— Yes. 
Q.— It seems to me it is rather complicated? Were those tanks 
upon the Defender similar to the tanks upon the Vigilant? 
Mr. Herreshoff— Which tanks do you refer to? 
Mr. Askwith — The tanks that were taken out at New Rochelle. 
Mr. Herreshoff— Which? There were three tanks taken out. 
Q.— Were any of them similar to the tanks on the Vigilant? A.— The 
ice tank was similar, I think. 
Q.— Had the Vigilant similar tanks? A.— She had tanks. 
Q — Were they permanent tanks? A.— No. 
Q. — Were they around her center board? A.— In the vicinity of it— 
that is, the water tanks were. 
Q.— The tanks upon the Defender were not arranged in the same 
way ? A.— No. 
Q.— What were those tanks on the Vigilant used for? A — I do not 
know what tanks you have reference to. 
Q.— You said there were some tanks upon the Vigilant around the 
enterboard? A. — Yes, sir; some water tanks. One each side of the 
nterboard on the Vigilant. They were intended to hold water. 
Can you tell me, supposing that lead was stowed aft, and the 
s . { trimmed by the stern, whether much lead would be required to 
considerably alter the appearance of the boat? 
Mr. Herreshoff — Alter the appearance? 
Mr. Askwith— Yes; to alter her appearance on the water. Is it not 
a fact that a comparatively small quantity would do that? 
Mr. Herreshoff — Would alter her appearance very much— a small 
quantity? 
Q.— Is it a fact that it would or would not? A.— Of course it would 
alter her trim; a small amount. In proportion to the load that was 
put in. A larger amount would alter her appearance. 
Q.- 1 am asking you would a small amount alter her appearance 
much? A.— I should say not. 
Q.— Were these tanks that were taken out of the Defender included 
in the 7,0001bs. weight of furniture? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q.— When she had raced with them before was there any specified 
quantity of water in them? A. — No ; I think not. I think they gener- 
ally had only a very little. 
Q.— Did you calculate that they should be full or empty? 
Mr. Herreshoff— During the racing? 
Mr. Askwith— Yes. 
A.— They were to be nearly empty. I made an allowance for a 
small amount of water in the tank. 
Q.— What was their size? A.— I don't remember the exact size. 
By Mr. Bives: 
Q.— You stated yesterday, I think, their capacity in gallons, approx- 
imately, did you not? A.— Roughly, I have the exact size at home, 
but I haven't it with me. 
Mr. Choate— I suppose he may send that. 
Mr. Herreshoff— What I stated was only approximate. 
Mr. Rives— You can send them in a note to Mr. Choate, if you can 
get the exact figures. 
Mr. Herreshoff— Yes, sir. 
By Mr. Askwith: 
Q. — Did you definitely convey the first two tons of lead on board at 
New- Rochelle, and then the other ton that we have had evidence of 
that was bought by Mr. Iselin, on board the Defender, by weight? 
Mr. Herreshoff — Did I convey it on board? 
Mr. Askwith — Did you have it conveyed? Were you present when 
it was conveyed on board the Defender? 
A. — I think not; I do not remember now that I was present. I may 
have been. 
Q.— Did you order first two tons to be put on board of her? A.— I 
did not order any, * 
Q.— Was it at your suggestion that two tons were put on board of 
her? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q.— It was? A.— After a consultation with Mr. Iselin. 
Q. — Was it at your suggestion that one ton further was put on 
board of her? A. — Yes, sir; after Mr. Iselin 's consultation. We de- 
cided together. 
Q.— Were you present when the ton was put on board? A.— No, I 
think not. 
Q.— Do you know whether there was the whole of it put on board? 
A.— I do not. 
Q.— Or a part? A.— No, sir. 
Q,— You do not? A,— I could not swear. 
Q.— Do you know whether there was any more lead on the Hattie 
Palmer besides that? A.— I do not know whether there was any lead 
on the Hattie Palmer. 
Q. — Were you asked, when that last ton was put on board, whether 
you wanted any more? A.— We decided to put that ton on board 
which was sent to the Erie Basin. 
Q.— Were you present when that ton was put on board? A.— Yes, 
sir; I was on the boat. 
Q. — Did they call out to you from the Hattie Palmer, asking you 
whether you wanted any more? A.— I do not remember that it was 
taken from the Hattie Palmer. 
Q.— Where was it taken from? A.— I think it was taken from the 
dock. 
Q.— Did anybody call out to you from the dock? A.— In fact, I do 
not know. I am not sure. I was busy at other things at the time, 
Mr. Choate— Mr. Iselin testifies that it was waiting in a truck on the 
dock. 
Mr. Askwith— Then I suppose it was loaded from the dock; but I 
want to know whether Mr. Herreshoff was present when that was 
loaded. 
Mr. Herreshoff— I was simply with Mr. Watson and Mr. Hyslop. I 
do not recall now the exact incident, 
By Mr. Askwith: 
Q.— While the lead was being put on, were you not asked whether 
you wanted any more? A.— No, I think not. I do not remember being 
asked. 
Q.— Do you know the time during the summer when the sail area of 
the Defender was increased? A.— Yea, sir. 
Q.— Had you seen any plans of the Valkyrie at that time? A.— No, 
Q. — Have you ever seen any plans of the Valkyrie? A.— No. 
Q. — What lead you to increase the sail area? What was the object? 
A. — To put more sail onto her. 
Q. — What was the object of putting more sail on? A. — To give her 
more power. 
Q.— When the sail area was altered, which as you say was to give her 
more power, was her ballast at all altered by your direction? A.— 
No. 
Mr. Askwith— Those are all the questions I wish to ask now. 
By Mr. Whitney: 
Q— I seem to recall that the general judgment of experts upon the 
two boats before the races was that the Valkyrie would be at her best 
in light weather, and the Defender at her best in heavy weather. Was 
that 80? A.— I think that was the general opinion, from what infor- 
mation we had from abroad at that time. 
Q.— Was that your opinion? A.— Yes, sir. 
y.— Did you think you had a surplus of stability on the Defender as 
compared with that of the Valkyrie? A.— Yes, sir; that is, judging 
from other yachts, the Vigilant and Defender. 
Q.— The Defender has turned out to have very great stability; greater 
power to carry sail, as I recollect it? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q.— I saw her in a squall. What day was that? The first or second? 
A.— That was the last of the trial races. 
Q.— What object would anybody have had to have increased the im- 
mersion of the Defender? A. — Of course, to make a longer vessel of 
er; a longer and larger vessel. 
Q.— I mean, in fitting her to compete against the Valkyrie, would 
you have preferred at that time to have increased or decreased her 
ballast? 
Mr. Herreshoff— You mean, taking the vessel just as she was? 
Mr. Whitney— Yes, just as you had been racing with her. 
A.— We felt very well satisfied with the trim. 
Q,— But your danger, if at all, as I understand it, was in light 
weather? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q.— Did you want more ballast then? A.— In light weather, of course, 
we would want less. 
Mr. Ohoate— That is all. I would like to call another witness before 
I recall Capt. Haff. 
The Chairman— Is it understood that any questions are to be sent 
to Mr. Herreshoff? Do you desire to send any? 
Mr. Askwith— I really have not studied Mr. Herreshoff "s evidence at 
all. I could not hear half of it, and I did not listen to it with that 
view. 
The Chairman— I have no doubt Mr. Herreshoff will answer them, 
if you choose to send him any at his address. 
Mr. Choate— I would like to call the captain of the Flint, who towed 
the Defender down at certain times. 
Capt. E. Walter Brandow, of the tug Flint, was then called, and tes- 
tified as to the towing of Defender to the Erie Basin on Sept. 6, 
Capt. Henry C. Haff, being recalled, further testified: 
Capt. Haff— You asked me in relation to the crew. I want to qual- 
ify the answer I made by saying— you asked me if I engaged the crew. 
I say, with the advice and consent of Mr. Iselin I did. 
By Mr. Choate: 
Q.— To what extent were the officers and crew that were on her dur- 
ing the trial races the same as were on her during the Cup races? A. 
—The same. 
Q.— Were you at New Rochelle on Sept. 4 and 5, when the Defender 
was being stripped? A.— I was. 
Q — Did you sleep on board up there? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q — And you know what was done there in the way of taking out 
the trimmings and the tanks? A.— I do. 
Q — And the putting in of two tons of lead, as Mr. Herreshoff and 
Mr. Iselin have testified? A.— I do, yes, sir. 
Q.— And you agree with the statements they have made? A. — Yes, 
sir. 
Q.— Did you sail her, or go in her, from New Rochelle down to Erie 
Basin? A,— I did. 
Q.— On the morning of the sixth? A.— I did. 
Q.— And you were on board of her until the time of her measure- 
ment in the Erie Basin? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q. — Had anything been taken out of her except what Mr. Iselin and 
Mr. Herreshoff have testified to, at New Rochelle or on the way down, 
or anything put into her, except what they have stated? A.— Not any- 
thing. 
Q.— Before the measurement wasshe lightened at all for any purpose 
or by any means? A.— We had taken out the bedding. That is all, 
the cots— which we always had. 
Q.— That is the rule always? A — Always. 
Q.— Will you state what there was in that shape to take out? A.— 
There were some beds, for about forty men. Forty cots, with the bed- 
ding and blankets; the mattresses and blankets. 
Q.— Were there forty men besides the officers? A.— Forty all told, 
with the officers. I believe that is the complement, within one. That 
is about the number. 
Q.— Those were taken out openly, in the usual way, before she was 
measured? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q.— Where were they put? A.— On board the Palmer. 
Q.— Did you observe anything about the Defender being on an even 
keel when she was measured, or did you not look? A.— I know there 
was some talk of her having a little list. 
Q.— When was that? A.— That was while we were getting ready to 
measure. 
Q.— Prior to the measurement? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q.— You heard that? A.— Yes, sir; I remember distinctly a talk 
about it, and something was done about it, but what was done I do 
not remember. We shifted the boom a little; Mr. Leeds said she had 
a little list. He was astern of her, 1 believe, in a small boat. 
Q,— When the measurement was completed,how long did you remain 
there until you started for Sandy Hook? A. — We started for Bay 
Ridge— I could not tell within half an hour. Probably about3 o'clock. 
Q.— In tow of the Flint? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q.— How long did you stay at Bay Ridge? A. — We laid at Bay Ridge 
until very near sundown. Something in that neighborhood. 
Q.— Where was the Hattie Palmer in the meantime? A.— The Hattie 
Palmer had left us after we were "measured. The Hattie Palmer had 
to go for coal and water. She hadn't enough to go to the Hook with. 
She went down to Twenty-sixth street, Brooklyn, and she was fitted 
out for Bay Ridge. 
Q.— You waited for her with the Defender at Bay Ridge? A,— We did. 
Q.— And she having come up, she was taken in tnwalso by the Flint? 
A.— Yes, sir. We waited for her there. We got tired of waiting. I 
put all the men on the Flint, as it was getting near supper time, and I 
sent them to meet the Palmer, and they met the Palmer. They came 
off and it was very near sundown. The Palmer went ashore and put 
our mainsail ashore. We had an extra mainsail on board, that was in 
the sail room, and it filled it up so that it didn't leave enough room to 
put the beds under cover on a stormy day. It was a small mainsail 
that we had on her previous to enlarging the sail. 
Q.— Had you orders up to this time to cut the twenty-one pigs of 
lead that were received on board at the Erie Basin? A.— Yes, sir; we 
had. 
Q.— Why did you not cut it while you were waiting at Bay Ridge? 
A.— We had no good solid block to cut it on, and there is not a suitable 
place on a boat's deck to cut it, and again the chisel that we cut with 
and the maul, and so on, were on board the Hattie Palmer. 
Q.— You did not leave the Defender at all? A. — No, sir. I was on 
the Palmer long enough to get my meals; that is all. 
Q.— That was always when the Palmer was alongside of you? A.— 
Yes, sir. 
Q —And the two made fast? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q —You went on to Sandy Hook or the Horseshoe and made fast 
there about 9 o'clock? A.— My recollection is about 8:30, Notwith- 
standing the log, 8:30 is my recollection. 
Q.— Did you anchor there the Defender by herself? A.— Yes, sir; 
we anchored. 
Q.— What did the Hattie Palmer do? A.— The Hattie Palmer came 
alongside. 
Q— As soon as the tow was loose? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q.— And made fast in some way? A.— Made fast. Took a line out. 
Q.— How long did the Hattie Palmer remain alongside of the De- 
fender? A— About an hour, until about 9:30. 
Q.— It would make it about 9:30 or 10? A.— About 9:38. It might 
have been fifteen minutes from that. It was somewhere between 9 
and 10, at any rate, when she left. 
Q.— Left for the night? A.— Yes, sir. 
Mr. Askwith— Which night was that? 
Mr. Choate— The night of the 6th. 
Q.— From the time of the measurement until the Hattie Palmer left 
was any lead or ballast or water taken on board the Defender? A.— 
Not a pound of anything. 
Q. —What happened during the hour or more that the Hattie Palmer 
lay alongside of the Defender in the Horseshoe from 8:30 or 9 on? A. 
—This lead that we had on the cabin floor was taken out to the 
Palmer, on her Sampson post, a good solid block, and we cut it. It 
was there cut in two and put back again on the Defender and passed 
below. 
Q.— Had there been any opportunity until then to take it on to the 
Hattie Palmer to becut? A.— No, sir; there had not. Therehad been 
no time when it was possible for us to do it: 
Q.— Did you take part in the cutting? A.— I did. I held the chisel 
to cut every pig that was cut. 
Q. — Was it a chisel or axe and hammer ? A. — A chisel. Any wood- 
cutter will know what an old-fashioned wedge is to split logs. I held 
it while the man mauled it. 
Q.— Your crew, or some of them, were engaged in bringing the pigs 
from the Defender to the Hattie Palmer, and assisting you, and tak- 
ing them back in pieces, in halves, and packing them away? A,— Yes, 
sir. 
Q.— Was all that done under your direction ? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q —Was any lead introduced into the Defender from the Hattie 
Palmer, except what had been brought from the Defender to be cut 
and carried back? A — Not a pound. 
Q. — Or anything else of weight? A. — Nothing. 
Q.— There was something, in the way of cots, that had been taken 
out? A.— They were put back in the Basin. 
Q.— They were restored at Bay Ridg«? A.— At Erie Basin. 
Q,— Was there anything else carried backward and forward while 
the Hattie Palmer lay alongside of the Defender, except these twenty- 
one pigs of lead? A. — Nothing. 
Q.— You saw to their being stowed away under the floor, where you 
say that the two tons were? A.— Mr. Berry;* the mate, was in charge 
of it while we were cutting the lead. 
Q.— Is he here? A.— Yes, sir. There were about twelve or fifteen 
pieces that were perhaps not already stowed. I went down in the hold 
and saw where it was stowed, and saw the condition of the lead where 
it was stowed, and to see that it was in the place where we intended 
to place it. 
Q— You say of your own knowledge that from the time of the 
measuring until the Hattie Palmer left there was nothing brought into 
the Defender except the twenty-one pigs that were taken out, cut in 
two and brought back? A.— I do say so. , 
Q.— Where did the crew take their meals that evening, if they had a 
