March SI. 1896, 
FOREST AND STREAM. 
S48 
speak off A. — No, sir; it was a regular meeting of the committee at 
Mr. Smith's office, somewhere between 30 and 12. 
Q — Do you know what time Mr. Canfleld received the letter asking 
for the alteration in the marking? A.— I do not. 
Q — Do you remember this phrase of it: "Mr. Toung, the pilot I 
have engaged, informed me yesterday late that if Valkyrie was not 
measured before noon there would not be water enough to take her 
out before the next tide?" A.— I do not call that to mind now. 
Q — You did not gather that you would be too late for the Valkyrie's 
measurement, when you went down to the Basin? A.— No; because 
we harried all we could. We could not get aboard for a long time. 
The Valkyrie had gone when we got there; we certainly supposed 
when we left we would be there in time to catch the Valkyrie. 
Q —Are you aware that on Saturday night the Valkyrie left at the 
Horseshoe their properties, their tender and clothes, dinner- 
Mr, Rogers— Saturday-night? 
Mr. Askwith— Yes. 
A.— No; I ana not. 
Q — ire you aware they quite unexpectedly went to Bay Ridge, 
because the weather was not suitable for getting into the Horeshoe? 
A.— No; I am not. 
Q —I have a letter here from Lord Dunraven in which he states: "So 
little idea had we of going to Bay Ridge on Saturday night that we 
left our house, home and dinner at Sandy Hook in the City of Bridge- 
port, and our boats and anchor and chain." 
Mr. Choate— This is a letter written recently? 
Mr. Askwith — I received it this morning. I state that on his" behalf, 
as a fact. 
The Chairman — Do you offer that as evidence? 
Mr. Askwith— It certainly cannot be said to be legal evidence, but I 
appear as his representative, and he states it to me. 
Mr. Choate— lam willing it should be ad led to his testimony. 
The Chairman — Very well. 
Mr. Choate— It is in reference to this question about the arrange- 
ment on Friday, I suppose? 
Mr. Askwith — Yes. 
Mr. Uives— In what respect do you suggest that the weather was 
unsuitable for going into Sandy Hook Bay on Saturday night? 
Mr. Askwith — That is, I admit, only my memory of a conversation 
with him. These are the exact words that he uses himself. 
Mr. Rives— There can be no foundation in fact, I think. Sandy 
Hook Bay is an excellent anchorage at any time, except with a strong 
northwesterly gale. 
Mr. Askwith— I admit that it is only my memory. I think I would 
Hk6 to withdraw it, because I was not there, and I only speak of it, 
from memory of a vague conversation as to the weather. 
Mr. Whitney— Let us get at it. Wbat is it that you put in ? 
Mr. Askwith— I will read it again: "So little idea had we of going to 
Bay Ridge Saturday night that we left our house, home and dinner at 
Sandy Hook, in the City of Bridgeport, and our toats and anchor and 
chain." He means to imply that it any arrangement had been known 
to him or any one on board the Valk\ rie, they would have made ar- 
rangements for the City of Bridgeport leaving Sandy Hook and going 
to Bay Ridge, and for going back there in the evening rather than to 
Sandy Hook. 
Mr. Rogers— May I ask a question? Do you mean that Lord Dunraven 
did not understand that he was to have these marks affixed on Sun- 
I day? Is that the idea? 
Mr. Askwith— Yes. I think Mr. Canfleld also implied that he had no 
intention of saying that he absolutely conveyed this either to Lord 
| Dunraven or to Mr. Watson, but that the question of re-marking was 
discussed. That is my memory of the effect of his evidence. 
Mr. Choate-Itwas the marking, as I understood. Mr. Canfleld is 
here, if you want, to ask him any further questions about it. 
Mr. Whitney— I understood Mr. Canfiela's testimony to be the same 
as Mr. Rogers's * ith regard to the marking of the boats. Is that your 
understanding, Mr. Askwith? 
Mr. Askwith— I will read, if I may, Lord Dunraven's words upon 
the subject of th« conversation about remarkin?, when he says Mr. 
Canfleld was present, and I suppose Mr. Rogers was also present. 
By Mr. Askwith: 
Q— 1 think you went off to the City of Bridgeport and had lunch 
th«-re? A.— No, we had a drink there. We did not take any lunch. 
Mr. Askwith— These are Lord Dunraven's words, if you will follow 
them kindly: ""It is possible Canfleld may have said something about 
Iselin's readiness to agree to outside marking. I remember a conver- 
sation with some one, Hyslop, I think, of the time of first measure- 
ment, on the subjsct of marking, and his saying there was no objec- 
tion, but it could not be done. If Canfleld and Rogers spoke about it 
to me at all it must have been merely that Iselin would not object, but 
that it was not practicable. , Anyhow, it was not done." 
Q.— Does not that coincide with your memory? A.— It does not. Of 
course, if I may Btate more conversationally, perhaps, what occurred, 
I think, perhapB, I could throw a little better light on the matter. Mr. 
Kersey was very impatient to get us off, and he shouted to us— I know 
him quite well— to hurry up and get aboard, and when we got on the 
Pulver I told him that the committee were going to have the boats 
marked "Well," he said, "that is a pity." At least, this is about as 
near as I can come. "Because you can't get Valkyrie back again now. 
Sb» touched going out." Then, when we were put aboard, there waB a 
a little confusion. Lord D inraven's daughters were there and some 
other people; Mr. Henderson was there, and Mr. Duryea was there, 
and there was some confusion. I remember one or two introductions. 
Lord Dunraven, I think, introduced Mr. Canfleld and myself to Mr. 
Duryea, I think, whom we already knew. 
Q. — Mr. Duryea was a friend of Mr. Iselin, whom Lord Dunraven 
requested to be the representative of the Defender for the last race? 
A.— I don't know anything about that. Then the gentlemen, finally, 
and young ladies, were put on the Pulver, and when they departed 
Lord Dunraven asked us to come into his cabin, and we had another 
- communication to give him, wbich we gave to him at the same time, 
and we then told him that the marks would be affixed as he suggested; 
then we had some little pleasantry, I remember, on it, that he said in 
the previous communication that it was a very simple matter, and we 
did not think it was, because we thought it impossible to affix them 
the way he said was so simple; and Mr. Watson was very hungry, 
. and he hustled around to get something to eat, and he was eating and 
we were talking, and the matter was discussed at considerable length. 
There is absolutely no question about that in my mind. 
By Mr. Choate: 
Q.— Discussed between whom? A.— Between Mr. Watson, Lord Dun- 
raven and ourselves. Of c-mrse it was brief, but it was thorough. 
Then, subsequently to that, when we were taken back on the Bridge- 
port into the Erie Basin, I remember Mr. Canfleld calling Mr, Watson 
down from the upper deck. There was a large crowd on the end of 
the pier there, and I suppose he did not want to shout it out; at all 
events, I remember his calling Mr. Watson down, and while I could 
not overhear exactly the words that he used, I know that, he was giv- 
ing Mr. Watson instructions about the marking to-morrow and the 
batten; in other wordB, to get Mr, Watson and Mr. Hyslop together. 
By Mr. Askwith: 
Q —Who said this? A.— Mr. Canfleld. 
Q — When? A, — This was when we were brought back by the City 
of Bridgeport into the Erie Basin. 
Q— On the Friday ? A,— On Friday. It was following out— it was in 
the line of our whole mission, which was to let Lord Dunraven know 
that these marks would be affixed. 
Q — Was it not to the effect that the marks would be affixed before 
the next race? A.- -No, sir; they were to be affixed on Sunday. Those 
were our instructions; or rather, those were the instructions which 
we gave to Mr. WatBon. 
Q.— Were there any orders that the boat was to go to Bay Ridge for 
that purpose? A.— We told him to have his boat there. 
By Mr. Rives: 
Q.— By there you mean at the Erie Basin? A. — At the Erie Basin, 
on Sunday; and we were most particular, I remember, in instructing 
our measurer about the matter, and about preserving the batten, and 
putting it in a place where they could botb get to it. 
By Mr. Askwith: 
(j. — There was no order for remeasurement at that time? It was 
simply for re-marking? A.— For affixing the marks. There was no 
remeasurement contemplated then. 
Q.— Whom did you tell that the Defender was to be at the ErieBas'n 
upon the Sunday morning? A. — I think Mr. Iselin. 
Q.— Whom did you tell on board the Valkyrie that the Valkvrie 
was to be at the Erie Basin on the Sunday morning? A.— Mr. Wat- 
son. 
Q — Will you tell me exactly the time? 
lur. Rogers— Exactly the time when? 
Mr. Askwith— When you told him so. 
A —I think that we told him so twice, although I am not sure abrut 
that; but I remember Mr. Canfleld— as nearly as 1 can remember Mr. 
Uuuneid told him, when he was leaning over the stern of the little 
steam tug there — to be sura and have his boat in on Sunday morning. 
Q.— Was that after you ha 1 left Lord Dunraven? A.— That was just 
after leaving the Bridgep* rt. 
Q.— Where was Mr. Watbuu? A.— Mr. Watson was leaning over the 
bulwark, I think, on the m in deck. 
Q.— The main deck of the V alkyrie? A.— I think he came down from 
the upper deck. I am not Bure whether it was the upper deck or the 
main deck. No; of the City of Bridgeport. 
Q. — Was that after you were going away from the City of Bridge- 
port, having gone on board with Mr. Canfleld, when you found that 
the Valkyrie had gone out of dock? A.— This was the same occa- 
sion. 
Mr. Askwith— It really comes to a question, I suppose, of the effect 
upon Lord Dunraven's mind of what he understood. 
1 1 Mr. Rogers— I think it is quite liable, in a conversation of that kind 
that he might have got mixed up; but I cannot conceive how it is pos" 
sible that he could not have remembered our mission. 
Q —Do you think it is possible that he would have this impression : 
"They are founding this on some vague conversation?" A,- I cannot 
conceive it possible. We went there for a definite purpose, and with a 
definite mission, and we fulfilled it, and I cannot conceive it possible 
that he could have so understood us, but that it would be perfectly 
plain. 
Q — You went with the definite mission of giving hira the informa- 
tion that his request for a re-marking had been acceded to, that re- 
marking to take place before the next race? A.— That re-marking to 
take place Sunday, as 1 understood, the day following the race. He 
had to come in Sunday anyhow, you know, because the race was 
going to be Monday. They had to be measured Sunday or else it 
would go over until Tuesday. 
*tT * Tr ~* * * * & r flK ^ 
CARPENTER BLIZZARD'S EVIDENCE. 
George W. Blizzard, being called as a witness on behalf of Mr. Iselin, 
testified as follows: 
By Mr. Choate: 
Q —What is your business? A.— My business is carpenter by trade. 
Q.— Where do you live? A.— I live at New Rochelle. 
Q — You have been employed a good deal by Mr, Iselin, have you 
not? A. — Yes, sir. 
Q.— Were you employed in and about the Defender last summer? 
A.— Yes, sir; the whole season. 
Q.— From the time she was built until she was laid up? A.— Yes, 
sir. 
Q.— Did you have to do with the stripping of her at New Rochelle 
two or three days before the Cup races? A.— I did, yes, sir. I cleaned 
her out. 
Q.— You cleaned her out, and did you weigh what was taken out? 
A.— Yes, sir; with the exception of a few articles which were not 
weighed; but in bulk, taking it right straight through, I weighed 
everything, 
Q.— What kind of things were they that you could not weigh? Do 
you mean the water tank? A.— There was some stuff down below. 
That is, scrap articles, that laid in her bilge, and water, and such 
things as that, when Bhe was cleaned out, that was not weighed. 
Everything else was weighed. 
Q — Will yafu state what you did to her and what you took out of 
her? A.— I took out some of the bunks, wire mattresses, and some 
mattresses and carpets, bedding and cooking utensils, range, water 
tanks, waste tanks, ice-box, and a number of articles. I could not 
exactly go over them all, but everything that was movable, with the 
exception of her four water closets. They were not touched. 
Q.— Did you have to do with putting any lead in the place of what 
you took out? A.— Yes, sir; I helped to put it in. 
Q.— Did you keep a tally of the weights? A.— I did; yes, sir. 
Q — Have you got them? A.— I have; yes, sir. 
Q —Will you give us the tally of what you weighed, as it was taken 
out? A.— I don't know whether you can make it out or not, 
Mr, Choate— You can read it off. 
Mr, Blizzard— I will tell you exactly what I took out— the number of 
pounds. 6,5871bs. 
By the Chairman: 
Q —You mean by that, what you weizhed? A.— What I weighed; 
yes, sir. There was other stuff taken out that was not weighed. The 
stuff that came out of her bilge was not weighed. 
Q —How much, in your judgment? 
Mr. Blizzard— That came out of her bilge? 
The Chairman— Yes. 
A.— I suppose in the neighborhood of forty pails or buckets. 
By Mr. Choate: 
Q —Of water and stuff and dirt? A.— Yes, sir; dirt and stuff that 
was in the bilge at the time she was built in Bristol; that was not 
taken out; that laid in her all summer long, 
Q —You called it scrap iron. What did you mean? A.— Heads of 
bolts, cuttings and such things, sawdust. 
Q.— You made her absolutely clean? A,— Yes, sir; I did. Clean as 
a whistle. 
Q — Does this 6,5871bs include the tanks? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q —Did you actually weigh them, or take the weights from Mr. 
Herreshoff? A.— I had to take the weights of the ice-box and water 
tanks from Mr. Herreshoff. 
Q.— But all the rest you weighed yourself? A.— All the rest I 
weighed myself. 
Q.— What were the two weights given you by Mr. Herreshoff for the 
water tank and ice-box? A.— I think he gave me a weight about 
500lbs., as near as I can judge. 
Q.— And you included it in your 6,5871bs. ? A.— Yes, sir; I did. 
Q — Did you have any conference with them about the figure of 
7,0001bs.? A.— Yes, sir. 6 
Q — Do you know what you describe of water, dirt, dust and scrap 
iron— can you form any idea of what it weighed? A.— I can't exactly, 
but I should judge tbe pails were very heavy. They would weigh at 
least 25 or 30lbs.— maybe more. I wouldn't swear to the exact weight 
Q — That would be from 5001bs. upward? A.— Yes, sir. It would 
easily reach that. 
Q — Now about the lead that was put in up there? A.— The lead was 
put in there on the 5th. I helped to cut it. There were forty-two pigs 
cut on Hudson Park Dock, carried across two schooners that were 
laying there loaded with lumber, and put on board the Hattie Palmer 
and taken out to the Defender. 
Q.— When she lay where, at New Rochelle? A.— At Hudson Park 
Dock, New Rochelle. 
Q —Were you on the Defender all that time? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q — You did not sleep there? A.— I slept on her after she left there; 
after she left New Rochelle: until after the International races were 
over. 
Q —Where was Defender lying there? 
Mr. Blizzard— At New Rochelle? 
Mr. Choate— Yes. 
A.— She lay alongside of two schooners, at the dock, and the lead 
was carried across the two schooners loaded with lumber and put on 
to the Hattie Palmer. 
Q.— Was anything else put on her after you had cleaned her out, 
except the two tons of lead, the forty-two pigs, at New Rochelle? A — 
Yes, sir. 
Q,— What? A.— There was one ton of lead that was put on to her 
the day she left there. I didn't see it put on. 
Q — I mean at New Rochelle, was anything else put on? A No 
sir. 
Q —Do you know what was done for drinking water after the tanks 
were taken out and the ice-box? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q.— What? A.— We had a couple of milk cans and they were filled 
up and put on board, and we had hardly enough to last us during 
the day. 6 
RQ.— Did you go on the Defender from New Rochelle, or d>'d you 
come down by train, or on the Hattie Palmer? A.— Came down by 
train. I boarded the Defender in the Erie Basin. 
Q. — Before or after she was measured? A,— Just in time to be meas- 
ured. Before she was measured. 
Q — You took no part in that? A.— I took no part in that, no. 
Q —From that time on to the end of Saturday's race where were 
you? A.— I was on board the Defender, and stayed there. 
Q— Going on the Hattie Palmer to get a meal? A— Going on the 
Hattie Palmer to get a meal, yes, sir, and returned aboard the De- 
fender. 
Q — Did you see the twenty-one pigs put on at the Erie Basin? A.— 
No, sir, I did not. 
Q.— Did you see them on the cabin floor ? A. — I did, ye3, sir ; when I 
came aboard. 
Q.— You were down there' when tbe Hattie Palmer was alongside 
the Defender? A.— Yes, sir. 6 
Q — Both at Bay Ridge? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q— And at the Horseshoe? A.— Yes, air, 
Q— Was anything carried from the Hattie Palmer into the Defender 
except the twenty-one pigs of lead that were removed on the Hat- 
tie Palmer to be sawed, and the cots of the men? A.— Nothing else 
no, sir. ' 
Q.— Could anything have been introduced without your seeing it? 
A;— No, sir; it would have been impossible. 
Q — What took place down at the Horseshoe from the time when tbe 
Hattie Palmer drew up alongside until she left, and, what were those 
times, as you recollect, in the evening of Friday? A.— Well, we left 
Bay Ridge between 6 and 7 o'clock; I suppose between 0:^.0 and 7 
o'clock. We arrived at Sandy Hook about 8:30. 
Q — What took place there that night? A —The Hattie Palmer came 
alongside of us and we took those twenty-one pigs of lead ono at a 
time and put them on|the satnpson post, Capt. Half holding the wedge, 
and one of the men here did the striking; and we cut those twenty-one 
pigs and put them down in the bilge of the Defender. 
Q —Did you help do it or see it done? A.— Yes, sir; I helped to carry 
them. 
Q.— Was anything else put in there that night? A. — Nothing else, 
no, sir. 
m.— uid you lay the flo or after it was done. A .— No, sir; I did not. 
Q.— You do not know who did? A.— I don't know who puc the floor 
do^n. It was loose. It would drop down in half a second. It wou.u 
ta<e no time to do that. Who did it I could not say. 
Q.— What time did you turn in that night. Before or after the 
H tttie Palmer left the Defender? A.— After the Hattie Palmer had 
1 ft, yes, sir. 
Q. — How long after? A.— I couldn't say exactly the time, whether 
it was half an hour or an hour, but I know I turned in before 11 that 
night. 
Q —What time did you come out in the morning, the next morning? 
A.— I came out in the morning about 5:30. 
Q — Where did you sleep, with relation to the place where this lead 
had been put in? How near? A. — I slept on the starboard side, right 
close to it; with my cot and head right aeainst the companionway. 
Q.— You know the Defender pretty well? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q. — Could there have been any bringing in of anything to an 
amount of nine or ten tons, or any amount, without your being dis- 
turbed? A.— No, sir. It would be impossible. 
Q.— Is noise easily conveyed and heard from one side of that boat to 
another? A. — Yes, sir. She was all open. You could stand right in 
the stern and look straight through, 
Q.— Do you remember Mr. Iselin and his friends coming on board 
the next morning? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q.— And Lord Dunraven bringing Mr. Henderson and putting him 
aboard? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q —Where were you then ? A.— I was on the deck, right just aft of 
the wheel. 
Q — Did you go to the side to Bee them come up, both parties? A. — 
I had a little bit of curiosity. I wanted to see him and take alook just 
the same as the rest of the folks. 
Q —Did others? Who were the rest of the folks you speak of ? A,— 
The whole crew. 
Q —Was there a general movement toward that side where Lord 
Dunraven came up with Mr. Henderson? A. — There was on the port 
side, yes. sir; all the crew was on the port side. I was on the star- 
board side at that time. 
Q — Did you, under the direction of Mr. Iselin, that morning, and, if 
so, at what time— how long before the race began— sound for water, 
or examine for water, in the hold of the Defender? A.— I did; yes, Bir. 
Q— What did you do? A.— I went down under the floor, and I had 
a little rod there, I suppose in the neighborhood of 8ft. long, and if it 
is not taken out it is in there yet; and I had it marked, and I went 
down into her and marked it every morning; measured it. 
Q— Was there any water in her? A. — There was no water in her that 
morning. It had been pumped out. 
Q.— Do you know of any sponging out done that morning? A,— 
I didn't see any sponging done on the bilge part of her, but "I did on 
the lazarette. On the lazarette one of the men sponged her. 
Q — Did you take part with Mr. Herreshoff, Mr. Iselin and the Cap- 
tain in the examination of the lead before sailing that day? A.— I 
didn't take any part in examining it; no, pir. 
Q —Or in taking up the floor or putting it back? A.— No, sir; I only 
took up the one little patch that I had anything to do with. 
Q.— How long was the Hattie Palmer alongside that morning? A.— 
I should judge she was alongside in the neighborhood of about three 
hours. 
Q —And you and others went on her to get your breakfast? A.— 
Yes, sir. 
Q.— Was anything carried to or fro that morning? A.— Nothing; 
only the cofs were carried aboard; taken off the Defender and put 
aboard. That was all, 
Q —And you sailed and came back with" the Defender? A.— I did; 
yes, sir. 
Q —Were you on her until she was measured the next day or where 
were you? A.— No, sir; I left the Defender that night about 8:30, on 
board tbe Flint. 
Q —At Bay Ridge? A.— At Bay Ridge; yes, sir. 
Q.— Where did you go? A.— I went home. Mr. Iselin let me go 
home; I went to New Rochelle and returned the next night; the next 
afternoon. 
Q-— You were not present then on the following day, Sunday? A — 
No, sir. 
Q.— You do not know what might have happened between the time 
you left her and the next day at noon? A.— No, sir. 
Q.— Did you know of any place in that vessel where water ballast or 
any other ballast could have been stowed without your knowing it? 
A.— No, sir. It would have been impossible to put it there. There 
was no place to put it. 
Q.— Nothing to hold water? A, — There was nothing to hold water 
except the hull of the boat. The water would have to enter into the 
bilge, if any water was carried aboard. 
Q — You had been on her all summer? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q.— What do you know about the leak that Mr. Herreshoff has 
spoken of? What did that amount to? A- In a heavy breeze she 
would leak considerably, somewhere alung the forward part of the 
mast. In light weather she didn't leak hardly any. In any weather 
that we had she wouldn't leak five pails full all day long, hardly. 
Q— From your knowledge of ber, from the time she was at New 
Rochelle until you left her at 8:30 on Saturday night, was there to 
your knowledge anything taken into her or out of her except the two 
tons of lead carried in, the one ton of lead taken in and removed on to 
the deck of the Hattie Palmer, sawed and returned, and the cots of 
the men removed and carried in again? A.— No, sir; there was not 
By Mr. Askwith: 
Q.— Did you go out on the sail at New Rochelle on Thursday that 
Mr. Leeds spoke of, in the Defender? A.— I couldn't say positively, 
but I think I did. 
Q.— When Lord Dnnraven was approaching the Defender on 'the 
morning of Saturday with Mr. Henderson in his boat, on which side 
did he land Mr, Henderson? A.— He landed him on the starboard 
side. 
Q.— How many men were aboard the Defender at that time? A.— I 
dian't count them. I couldn't exactly say. I know the whole crew 
was there. 
Q.— Do you thiDk that the whole crew went to the starboard? A.— I 
can't say. I don't know. 
Q — Do you think that many of them crossed over from the star- 
board side to the port side after he had landed Mr, Henderson? A.— 
I don't know. 
Q — Do you know whether they went from the port side to the bows? 
A. — I couldn't tell you that. 
Q.— Or that they went from the bows aft? A.— I Jcouldn't say. I 
don't think they did. 
Q— Were you present at the measurement of the Defender? A.— 
Yes, sir. 
Q— On board? A.— On board, yes, sir. The first measurement. 
Q — She was perfectly level on the water then? A.— Yes, sir 
Q — Did you look over the side? A.— No, sir. 
Q —Could you tell me whether any marks were above water at that 
time in the shape of pipes that have been spoken of, from personal 
observation? A.— I don't think there was. 
Q.— Did you see? A,— No, I didn't look for pipes. 
Q— Was this bilge water loose in Defender all summer, in all her 
summer races? A —Of course she was pumped out every day. She 
was cleaned out. Of course a little bilge water laid into her. lhis 
stuff and dirt was into her, that was in her all summer long. She 
was never properly cleaned out from the time she left the ways in the 
shop until she was cleaned out at New Rochelle. 
By Mr. Choate: 
Q.-1 forgot to ask you if you remembered how the water was that 
morning at the time when Mr. Iselin came aboard and when Lord 
Dunraven put Mr. Henderson aboard? How was the water where the 
Defender lay, and the wind, if you remember? A.— The wind was ' 
about S.E., as near as I can get at it. 
Q.— Blowing something? A— Blowing— it had been blowing, but it 
hau dropped down. Blowed quite a fresh breeze that morning. The 
wind had greatly dropped out. There was quite a sea outside. 
Q.— And insidt? A.— Of course, we were laying inside. There was 
a little motion, but not much. 
Q.— A ripple, as Lord Dunraven called it? A.— Yes, sir. 
By the Chairman: 
Q— That lead at New Rochelle came from New York, did it not? 
A.— Yes, sir. 
Q — How did it come to New Rochelle? A.— It came up on the freight 
bout, the Mary E. Qordan. 
Q— How long before you used it? A,— I don't know. I guess it 
haan't been there long before we used it. I couldn't say. It may 
have been there the aay before. I don't know ; I couldn't say. 
Q.— How much was there of it? A.— There were forty-two pigs. 
O — Was it all used? A.— "Sea, sir. 
Q.— None left? A..— None left; no, sir. 
y —And all that was put on to the Hattie Palmer was transferred to 
the Defender? A. — Yes, sir. 
Q.— What did you do with the water tanks that were taken out 
there? A.— I took them out and left them on a little island there 
that belonged to Mr. Iselin, and they remained there- during the 
r tees. 
Q.— They remained there? A.— Yes, sir. 
By Mr. Askwith: 
Q.— Have you been at work on the Defender in putting her into her 
winter quarters? A,— No sir. 
MATE BERRY'S EVIDENCE. 
Capt. James H. Berry, being called as a witness on behalf of Mr 
Iselin. testified as follows: 
B / Mr. Choate: 
u — iuu are a seafaring man? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q.— How long Have you followed the sea? A,— Since I was about 16 
ol and on. ' 
Q.— Several years ago ? A.— Yes, sir. 
Q— Have you done much sailing in yachts? A.— A little; yes sir 
y.— How long? A. — About 12 or 14 years; 10 or 13 years, or some- 
vi hare along there. 
