476 
FOREST AND STREAM. 
|t)EO. 1, 1894. 
In the evening the members present held a meeting when 
it was decided to abandon the trials for this year. 
In this day's hunt Mr. Kinney withdrew Logan explain- 
ing that the conditions of hunting were so different, Logan 
being accustomed to hunt to the gun, that in fairness to his 
hound's reputation he thought it best to withdraw him. He 
himself was not accustomed to the riding which it would be 
necessary to do to keep up with the hounds and unless his 
hound saw him every now and then he would come in and 
not hunt with the others. This was the case with his Ned 
the previous day and those who did not know the circum- 
stances formed an erroneous opinion of the dog, so Mr. Kin- 
ney can not be blamed for not allowing Logan to run. 
In the evening after a hasty supper the horn sounded, 
boots and saddles and the hounds were called on for a night 
hunt or road frolic. Four or five foxes were started and 
there was glorious music and running most of the night, 
camp-fires were lighted and the company enjoyed themselves 
to the full, in what to many was a hunt under novel con- 
ditions. 
FRIDAY. 
Here is good hunting weather said everyone when the 
blinds were rolled up this morning. Heavy clouds hung 
low, but by breakfast time the rain came down in torrents. 
Messrs. Corbin and young Walker took the hounds out and 
accompanied by Miss Hathaway and Miss Robinson, who 
braved the elements in company with Col. Hathaway and a 
few others, enjoyed the music of a good run until noon time. 
Meanwhile General Gentry organized several drag hunts for 
those who stayed at home. These were laid around the 
hotel in full view of the guests and proved very amusing, 
being followed chiefly by native hounds brought in by sev- 
eral old farmers. One black and tan hound of good make 
and shape was particularly true on the trail. 
After supper the members held their adjourned meeting, 
which is reported elsewhere, and which finally resolved itself 
into a grand social finale when everyone patted his fellow 
member on the back and voted the present the best time in 
their lives, and, with Kentucky hospitality, extended invita- 
tions to the strangers to come and hunt with them any and 
all the time if they wanted. 
And so ended the first trials of the National Fox Hunters' 
Association, and the tuneful, sleepy echo of W. S. Walker's 
horn still sounds in our ears, all that remains of what will 
always be a pleasant memory. H. W. Lacy. 
From the latest advices, Lord Dunraven has taken no positive steps 
since the receipt of the reply to his letter, either to a decision with 
Mr. Watson as to final details of the new yacht or to hasten a formal 
challenge from some cluo. Meanwhile the limit of time for challeng- 
ing is rapidly disappearing. 
Only the future can prove whether the chances of a Cup race in 1895 
have been made or marred by the reply of the special committee of 
the New York Y. C. to the letter of Lord Dunraven; but, whatever the 
result may be, it must be admitted that the committee has done its 
work well and written a good letter. So far as the specific suggestions 
of Lord Dunraven are concerned, there is nothing in the committee's 
reply to interfere in any way with a speedy conclusion of the prelim- 
inary negotiations and the sending of a challenge in due form. The 
committee has; however, we are glad to see, gone further than this, 
having already taken up the point which" we commented on last week, 
of the relations of a challenger to the new deed. By a plain and 
definite statement of the terms on which the Cup if won must be 
held, it has disposed of the nonsensical proposition made by Lord 
Dunraven in 1892, of holding the Cup under "the terms of the Volun- 
teer-Thistle matches," and of the misunderstanding that was the 
natural consequence of Lord Dunraven's insistence on this phrase 
and the club's announced determination to accept his challenge only 
as made under the new deed. 
In view of this statement by the committee of the position of the 
New York Y. C, the present condition of affairs is a very simple one. 
The club reasserts its adherence to the new deed in toto; the leading 
British yacht clubs, and particularly the Royal Yacht Squadron, have 
pronounced this same deed illegal and unfair, and have declared that 
they would not race under it. The issue is square and clearly defined, 
and must be fought out some day; the sooner the better for both 
parties. 
In discussing the letter of the committee the many independent 
clauses can best be taken up in order of their relative importance 
rather than in the chance order in which they actually occur. 
We have long ago pointed out that the conditions governing an 
i nternational or in fact any challenge cup must be of two classes, the 
primary conditions under which a trophy is established and held, 
and which also define the broad rights of a challenger; and the sec- 
ondary, relating to the practical details of racing, such as dates, 
courses, measurement, judges, sailing rules etc. Though no such 
distinction is made in the legal jumble known as the new deed, it 
nevertheless exists, and must be recognized in all discussions of 
conditions. 
Of the various points of the committee's letter, only one relates to 
the primary conditions, that beginning with the allusion to the Valky- 
rie-Vigilant matches. In covering it, the committee makes a clear 
and concise statement that "the new deed is held to completely cover 
and control the contests for the cup." We have always looked upon 
the proposal to hold the cup under the terms of the Thistle- Volunteer 
races, prior to the drawing up of the new deed, as a foolish and futile 
attempt of the challenger to avoid the direct issue of the legality of 
that document. Two years ago we pointed out that it meant abso- 
lutely nothing— that as long as the holders stood by the new deed, 
any challenge accepted must be made under it and not under special 
conditions which tended to nullify it; and further, that a challenger 
who might win the cup, could in no way be benefitted by an agreement 
on the part of the New York Y. C. that it would allow him, if he were 
so foolish, to throw away all the unfair advantage which he might 
legally claim under the deed. The present statement of the commit- 
tee seems to cover this point most fully, and should dispose finally of 
this mischievous side issue. 
The committee also reminds Lord Dunraven that the time in which 
he may come to a decision and write and mail his challenge, is getting 
very short; by the letter of the new deed, if a challenge were sent by 
the club which Lord Dunraven will represent immediately on the 
receipt of the committee's letter, it could not reach New York before 
Dec. 1, consequently the races must be sailed after Oct. 1. Allowing 
for even a brief delay in arranging the details between Lord Dunraven 
and his club, the races cannot be sailed before the middle of October; 
while a longer delay, the challenge not reaching New York before 
Jan. 1, would justify the New York Y. C. in declining to sail next year. 
Not only might the formal challenge from a club havebeen sent 
last summer, but at the very least Lord Dunraven's personal negoti- 
ations should have begun as long since in order that both parties 
might have ample time for preparation. In view of the widespread 
knowledge of the ten-month clause, the New York Y. C. would be 
quite justified in declining to waive this notice when a much longer 
one might well have been given. 
Of the numerous secondary conditions dealt with in the letter, the 
most important is that relating to the selection of one of several 
yachts after trial to represent the challenger. While this proposition 
is so obviously in accord with the modern practice of match sailing 
that it must some day prevail even in the Cup races, we had not real- 
ized that advanced ideas had so far replaced the old belief in the fair- 
ness of outmatching a "single foreign adversary by putting the fleet 
against him, as to secure a favorable consideration from the New York 
Y. C. of such -a proposal. "The sun do move," and the New York Y. 
C. with it, and we rejoice thereat; but at the same time, in view of the 
rigid wording of the new deed, there is room for doubt as to the power 
of any holder to accept a challenge which does not give the four 
dimensions of the challenging yacht. So far as its power goes, the 
committee has dealt with the matter in a broad and liberal spirit 
which will be appreciated by all yachtsmen, even though the change 
should not be made immediately. 
The next point— the measurement of the waterline and the prohibi- 
tion of the "ballast crew" — is practically of little importance. It has 
been for some time a foregone conclusion that such a change as Lord 
Dunraven asks for would be made in the raqjng rules of the club, to 
govern all yachts; and it would certainly be recognized in any interna 
tional contest. That the point is in reality of minor importance is 
apparent in considering the effect of an adverse decision. In that 
case, with the knowledge of what was allowed Vigilant and how she 
profited by it, the challenging yacht would in all probability have been 
designed to carry a still larger ballast crew; a sort of competition 
which, while hurtful to yachting, would have afforded no advantage 
to either side over the other, both profiting by it. Very fortunately 
the committee has, by its decision, averted the necessity for such an 
extreme course. The accompanying condition, as to shipping and 
shifting ballast, is also settled definitely and fairly. 
The rejection of the suggestion to substitute sailing length for l.w.l. 
length rests with the club as a body, or, to be accurate, with the 
voting members, and not with the committee, and is merely mentioned 
in the letter. The decision of the yacht owners present at the recent 
meeting was what might have been expected in view of the difference 
of opinion existing for some time on the question of classification. 
Whether or no the suggestion would have been accepted had it come 
in a different form, looking to the mutual agreement on some fixe d 
limit of sail, naturally not less than the proportion of Vigilant, we can 
not say; but it seems evident that such a measure would be beneficial 
to both parties. It would not follow that such a regulation would in 
any way promote a small sail plan or operate to the disadvantage of 
the present high-powered American type; but it would put an end to 
a competition in over-sparring that is neither scientific nor profitable. 
The decision of the committee to abolish the one-gun start is, in our 
opinion, a mistake, for two reasons. In the first place, while the com. 
mittee may be correct as to the nature and extent of the feeling 
.within the club, we believe that there is a growing feeling among 
American yachtsmen in favor of a one-gun start, especially in import- 
ant matches. The apparent disadvantage which Vigilant suffered this 
year and last has given rise to a strong feeling against the English 
method; but at the same time the striking contrast between the quick 
play and sharp racing in the Valkyrie- Vigilant races and the slovenly 
practice in all club regattas has had an effect on the yachtsmen who 
were gathered from all parts of the country to witness the last Cup 
races ; and it only needs such an improvement in the American boat 
as will enable her to hold her own in the fascinating cat-play about 
the line to bring about the general adoption of the method. It is quite 
likeiy that the next season or so may see the change made, and then 
some patriot will discover that the races between America and Maria 
or some other ancient craft were started in this way, with a single 
gun, and that it is an American invention; thus letting us all down 
easily and gracefully. 
To go back to the old way just now is practically a confession that 
while the English way is better, we are not quite up to it and must 
fall back on our rights for protection. A bolder way would be to 
stand by the best and build our boats and train our men up to it. 
What makes the matter worse is that while being placed in the posi- 
tion of asking an advantage, the American boat in taking the two- 
minute interval really gains nothing, as the superior quickness of the 
other craft still enables her to out-maneuver right up to the final gun; 
postponing the trouble for two minues, perhaps, but in no way lessen- 
ing it. Conditions may occur in which the two-minute interval may 
give an unfair advantage to one boat or the other, just as a ten-minute 
interval does; but in the majority of races the boat that turns quicker 
and is the better handled will get the start, whether with a single gun 
r a short interval. 
The decision of the committee in regard to starting to windward is 
merely in accordance with common sense. Whether starting at New 
York, Newport or Marblehead, in each case necessarily well under the 
shore, it would be absurd to tow fifteen miles further out to sea for a 
windward start with a probability of a sea breeze by the time the 
starting point was reached, making a run after all. As pointed out 
by the committee, there would be very serious disadvantages in tow- 
ing out fifteen miles beyond the Scotland or even Half- Way Rock, sail- 
ing in and out again, and finishing at or after dark some twenty miles 
offshore. One point, so far as we are aware, has not been brought 
out in any previous discussion. If a challenger is really solicitous of 
starting all races to windward, he may at any time make it compul- 
sory by the simple course of forcing a disagreement over the con • 
ditions on any grounds however frivolous; in which event he may 
demand three races outside of Sandy Hook, two not "to windward or 
leeward," but "to windward and return," the third triangular, but with 
the windward leg first. 
In the very probable event of the building to the 90ft. limit, the 
stipulation as to the two per cent, excess naturally disappears, a fact 
which the committee has very properly called attention to. The de- 
cision of the committee as to the transferal of the races to Marble- 
head has been from the first a foregone conclusion; considering all 
the circumstances, no yacht club would act otherwise, the only 
strange point is why such a suggestion was ever made. 
With the letter of the committee before him, Lord Dunraven should 
be able to make an early decision ; and to frame a reply as open and 
straightforward, and which shall avoid the bargaining and dickering 
which attended the previous races. Still holding our oft-expressed 
views of the new deed, we consider it fortunate that the committee, 
while evidently prepared to put a fair and liberal construction on all 
matters, stands strictly on the literal demands of that masterpiece of 
nautico-legal acumen ; thus putting it to a practical test which we are 
convinced that it cannot withstand through any extended series of Cup 
contests. 
The Dunraven Letter. 
The answer of the committee of the New York Y. C. to Lord Dun- 
raven's letter reached England last week and was cabled to New York 
on Friday night, as follows: 
"New York, Nov. 15, 1894. 
"My Lord:— The committee appointed by the New York Yacht Club 
have the honor to submit the following reply to your letter of Oct. 25 
to Mr. Oddie, on the subject of a challenge for the America's Cup: 
"As to that portion of the paragraph of your letter marked 'First,' 
relating to limiting the live weight and measurement with all weights 
on board, the committee are unanimous in its favor, and will recom- 
mend it to the club; in fact, the propriety of adopting some such 
regulation has for some time past been under discussion by a com- 
mittee on racing rules. 
"The other parts of the paragraph we think you will find already 
practically provided for by referring to page 30 of the report of last 
year's match, copy inclosed, under supplementary and final condi- 
tions. 
"In regard to your proposal headed 'Secondly,' it did not Beem prac- 
ticable to agree to selecting a starting point so far. beyond Sandy 
Hook Lightship as might be required for a windward course of fifteen 
miles, in the case of a wind off shore, in view of the distance from the 
Bay Ridge anchorage to the lightship, and of the importance of start- 
ing from and especially of finishing at the lightship in case of fog or 
darkness. 
"The committee will, however, agree to add the condition that all of 
the races shall be started to windward, if possible, from Sandy Hook 
or Scotland Lightship. 
"In regard to furnishing sailing length instead of load waterline 
length, the secretary of the club informs us that he has cabled, as you 
suggested, that loadwaterline length would be required. 
"To sail the races at Newport or Marblehead or anywhere out of its 
home waters the club considered out of the question. 
"In regard to your last suggestion, the f eeling at the club is, that the 
name of the challenging yacht in the challenge is necessary. 
"In order, however, to meet your views in the matter, and secure 
the best and fastest yacht as a challenger, the committee would agree 
(should you desire to substitute later another vessel) to recommend 
that the club consent to the withdrawal of an original challenge, and 
the simultaneous acceptance of a new challenge, without change of 
racing dates, from another vessel, provided she complies with the 
terms of the original challenge. 
"The terms and conditions of the Vigilant- Valkyrie match would, 
with certain changes, be acceptable to the New York Y. C., and we 
now proceed to state those that we are convinced would be requisite. 
"As to holding the Cup if won by ( you, the feeling of the club is this: 
Any agreement that the Cup, if won by you, should be held open to 
challenge under precisely the same conditions as those under which 
you challenge is superfluous, for according to the provisions of the 
deed, a winner would certainly be entitled so to do without any acqui- 
escence on the part of the New York Y. C., and be perfectly free to 
publicly announce his intention of so doing. From this, although 
granting you no additional right, any such agreement is, as a matter 
of form, most inadvisable, being in the nature of an addition to the 
deed itself, which is held to completely cover and control the con- 
tests for the Cup. 
"The experiment of a one-gun start, although most interesting last 
