March 30, 1895. 
FOREST AND STREAM. 
255 
plenty of mafcches awaiting him. Elliott, Brewer, Class, 
Morfey and probably one or two amateurs might be found wili- 
ng to give him a trial for a $100 or two. 
Grand American Handicap. 
Pittsburg, Pa., March 23. — It is deemed advisable to refer to 
the matter of admission to the shooting grounds during the 
Grand American Handicap tournament, April 3, 4 and 5. In 
the past there has been more or less of an undesirable element 
present at all large tournaments, and in order to avoid a 
similar occurrence at Willard Park, the management desires to 
explicitly state that admittance to tbe grounds will be by card 
of admission. Cards can be secured by both shooters and 
spectators free of charge by applying to the Secretary- 
Treasurer, the manager, or any of the subscribers to the Inter- 
state Association. The management has not beeu slow in 
catering to the personal convenience of the shooters. A new 
tent, 36 x 22 feet, equipped with guu racks, shell tables, and 
suitable stands for coats, hats, etc., will be thrown open for the 
accomodation of the contestants. In a nutshell every detail 
pertaining to proper arrangements has been attended to. Once 
again I would remind those shooters who contemplate entering 
the Grand American Handicap that this is the last week dur- 
ing which regular entries will be accepted. Entries accom- 
panied by §10 forfeit, should be sent on or before March 30, to 
J A. H. Dressel, Secretary-Treasurer, 313 Broadway, New 
York city. ELMER E. SHANER, Manager. 
The Proposed System of Dividing Purses 
In the issue of Forest and Stream of March 16, under the 
title of "Is not this what we want?" we gave a system of 
dividing purses suggested to us by a New Englander, wbo pre- 
ferred to be Known as "Green Amateur." At that time wb 
praised the system very highly, and at this date we cannot see 
any material defect in'its working. "Dropper's" letter in this 
issue is a great card for it, and the following from Mr. J. \\ . 
H. Reisinger, of the Meadville, Pa , Gun Club, dated March 
20, is also decidedly favorable: "I have been greatly interested 
in' the examination of a method pubbshed in your last issue, 
which explains the dividing of purses so as to prevent dropping 
for place. It ought not to be necessary to have such a.system, 
but unfortunately a man is not necessarily a man of honor 
because he carries a gun, though I would certainly trust to the 
honor of a man who can. shoot more readily than 1 would to 
that of one who cannot do so. Observation aud experience 
have shown the necessity of something to prevent tbe disreput- 
able practice referred to, and your method seems to fit the case. 
It is fair to all, and prevents dropping because a miss puts the 
shooter where he is bound to get less money. The members of 
our club who have examined the system are pleased with it." 
Shortly after the issue of March 16 last had appeared, we 
received a letter from Mr. Elmer E. Shaner, of Pittsburg, Pa., 
being sent us by _ 
two systems were precisely alike, save m the number of 
"points" for each winner, termed by Mr. Rose "ratio num- 
bers." Mr. Rose has gotten out a score sheet of a very com- 
plete character, the back of the sheet containing full instruc- 
tions for dividing the purses with several examples worked out 
by way of explanation of his method. This sheet was copy- 
righted in 1894 and may be obtained by writing to Mr. A. R. 
Rose, Salida, Ool., enclosing 10 cents for a sample copy. Any 
inquiries regarding quotations for any number of the sheets 
should be addressed to Mr. Rose, who states that he "will 
cheerfully answer any communications and will endeavor to 
make plain any point that is not thoroughly understood." 
Since our issue of March 16 we have fouud no reason to 
change our opinion of this system. Mr. Rose's "ratio num- 
bers" are rather better proportioned than those suggested by 
"Green Amateur," and for that reason we think his system, as 
explained on his score sheet, will find favor with the greater 
proportion of shooters. As the system is something that ap- 
parently fills the bill so far as absolutely preventing dropping 
for place goes, Forest and Stream is anxious to know of some 
gun club who will give the system an active trial at its tourna- 
ment. If any faults are to be found in its workings, they will 
more readily appear in practice after droppeis have thoroughly 
examined its capabilities and, to use a slang phrase, have 
''stacked up against it." 
A Dropper's View of the Question. 
Fleetwood, Berks County, Pa., March 22. —Editor Forest and 
Stream: I have taken a great deal of interest on the comments 
of the different writers on dropping for place, and must confess 
that droppers have been very severely belabored and lashed by 
them. I do not think that their remarks should be made to ap- 
pear quite so odious to the public as some of the writers would 
make it appear. I hold that the mere act of dropping for place 
is only a legitimate business transaction, and allowable as long as 
there is no pooling for- interests. For instance, if there happened 
to be a possibility of three straight scores and these three shooters 
should agree to pool, one would kill straight and the othei's 
would drop into the other places, dividing up the money received 
after the event was over. This system, I think, all shooters 
will agree should be abolished. Suppoisug there was no 24 iu a 
25 target race, and that there were three men who had a chance 
to brake straight. If two broke their 25, I think it would be 
perfectly legitimate for the other man to drop for second place, 
as long as he did not pool and divide with those that had killed 
straight. As in buying, in a business transaction you buy 
where you can purchase cheapest, so in shooting, you shoot 
where you can get the most for the money invested. If these 
gentlemen are shooting for fun and glory, I thiuk they would 
do well to confine themselves to shooting for cups and trophies 
only. But I think they are out for blood or money like the 
rest, or why all this howling and kicking because 17 canuot win 
more than IS and 19, and so 19 and 20 straight will kick if they 
cannot win more than 17 and 18. But such is the fortune of the 
wheel. Let them pay and learn like the rest of us, so that they 
can shoot up and drop iuto a nest lined with gold, if they can. 
All shooters are gambling to win, or why would we. have to offer 
such large inducements, as at Cleveland and Knoxville, to draw 
larce crowds of shooters together? If we are gambling to win 
let us do it in a fair and honorable way. I am very favorably 
impressed with the "straight out" system, and think it is the 
best svstetn yet devised, so far as the amateur is coucerned. It 
would effectually stop dropping for place, and would distribute 
the purses in fairer aud more proportionate shares. It is even 
better than a handicap. DROPPER. 
Vernon Gun Club Scores. 
The members of the Vernon Gun Club, of Brooklyn, N. Y., 
shot the following sweeps on Saturday, March 23: 
No. 1, 10 targets: W. H. Thompson and J. Lahey, 8; Wright, 
7- F. A. Thompson and Osterhout, 6; Thompson and Liv- 
ingston, 5: Allen, Emery and F. H. Lahey, 4; Everett, 3; Liv- 
ingston, 0. 
No 2, same: W II Ihompson, 9; Emerjr and F. A. Thomp- 
son, S- Balzer and Wright, 7; Welles, Osterhout and Living- 
ston, 6; J. Lahey, 5; Allen, 4; F. II Lahey, 3: Everett 2. 
No. 4 same: W. H. Thompson, aud J. Lahey, 8: Hal/.er aud 
Emerv, 7; Welles, Allen. Osterhout, Wright and F. A. Thomp- 
son. 0; F. H. Lahey, 5; Everett and Livingston, 4. 
No. 5, same: W.'H. Thompson, 8; F. A. Thompson, 7; Allen, 
Wright, J. Lahey and Livingston, 6; Welles and Emery, 5; 
Everett, 4; Balzer, 3, F. H. Lahey, 2. 
No. 6, same: Welles, Wright and F. A. Thompson, 7;_W. H. 
Thompson, Emery and J. Lahey, 6; Livingston, 5; Allen, F. H. 
Lahey and Osterhout, 4; Everett, 3. 
No. 7, 5 pairs: Wright, J. Lahey and Emery, 5£Welles and 
F. H, Lahey, 4; F. A. Thompson and Balzer, 3. 
Pittsburg's Interstate Tournament. 
Elmer E. Shaner, of Pittsburg, Pa., manager of the Inter- 
state Association, has forwarded to us advance copies of the 
programme for the shoot to be held under the auspices of the 
Pittsburg Gun Club, on April 16-18. The Smoky City is 
undoubtedly a great trapshootiug centre, and the success of a 
similar venture last year warrants the belief that this year's 
tournament will be even more of a success, if such a thing is 
possible. We know something about Pittsburg and her shooters, 
therefore we cau vouch for the accuracy of the following, 
which is taken from the programme: 
"As a trapshootiug centre Pittsburg is in the front rank, and 
has long been recognized as one of the very best points for the 
giving of a tournament. Within a radius of 50 miles from 
Pittsburg there are 37 gun clubs, having a bona fide active 
membership of over 600. Among trap shooters the local gun 
clubs have the reputation of containing more members wbo 
will shoot through all of a programme, than any other place in 
the country. Last year's tournament, under the same manage- 
ment as this year's, was one of the big successes of the season, 
there being an average entry of 46 1-5 in each event during the 
three days. Every effort will be made to make the tourna- 
ment of 1895 equally as successful, and the members of the 
Pittsburg Gun CLub extend a cordial invitation to all lovers of 
trap shooting to become then- welcome guests." 
The first da3', April 16, will be devoted to a handicap target 
race,- entrance §5, targets extra, the conditions being as fol- 
lows: 100 to 125 targets, 16 yards rise, known trap, unknown 
angles, Four moneys, 40 per cent, to first, 30 per cent, to sec- 
ond, 20 per cent, to third, aud 10 per cent, to fourth. Entries 
may be made up to the commencement of shooting by the last 
squad. Each squad to shoot at 25 targets before retiring. The 
expert shots will shoot at 100 targets, while the less skillful 
shots will be allowed to shoot at from 1 to 25 targets more than 
100. No shooter will be scored more than 100 breaks. The 
handicapping will be done by Elmer E. Shaner, "Jim Crow," 
"Old Hoss," and Louis Lautenslager. The success of our last 
year's handicap, which closed with 44 entries, induced us to 
arrange a similar one for this tournament, with the exception 
that the style of shooting will be known trap, unknown angles, 
in place of the novelty rule. Any shooter's handicap, or in- 
formation relating to the tournament, will be furnished upon 
application to Elmer B, Shaner, 122 Diamond Market. Pitts- 
burg, Pa. 
The rules that govern all tournaments given by this associa- 
tion are those published by the Interstate Association itself. 
The additional special rules governing the tournament are as 
follows: 
"Any shooter who intentionally misses a target in order to 
obtain a certain place, shall forfeit all his interest in the purse, 
aud will be debarred from taking part in any tournament given 
under the auspices of the Interstate Association. Shooters will 
be classified under the records they have made at their home 
clubs, or from the best information obtainable, into two classes 
.—expert and amateur. That class of shooters whose usual 
averages rank them as experts, will constitute the expert class. 
Shooters who are classified as experts must at all times shoot in 
accordance with the expert rule — which is, targets from five 
unknown traps, known angles, rapid firing system. Shooters 
who" are classified as amateurs must shoot at targets from 
known trans, unknown angles. Any shooter in the amateur 
class who wins or divides first money, must shoot in the next 
event in which he enters, in the expert class; if in this event 
he fails to win or divide any part of the purse, he will fall back 
to known traps, unknown angles, in the next event he shoots 
in, and so continue to graduate. Shooters classified as experts 
do not receive the benefit of the sliding scale. All purses of 
this tournament will be divided 40 per cent., 30 per cent , 20 per 
cent , and 10 per cent." 
The club adds §200 cash to the purses on the second and third 
days of the shoot. The programme for each of those days is 
the same: Six 15 target races, with a $1.50 entrance fee, and 
four 20 target races, $2 entrance. Two sets of traps will be 
used so that everybody will get plenty of shooting. The tour- 
nament will be held at Exposition Park, six minutes run by 
electric cars from the centre of the city. Shooting commences 
at 9.30 A. M., sharp, each day. Headquarters of sportsmen 
during the tournament will be at the Hotel Anderson, Penn 
avenue, and Sixth street. 
The above tells the story; for further information write to 
Elmer E. Shaner, who will gladly answer any inquiries. L 
Wilmington vs. Wawaset. 
Wilmington, Del., March 18. -Editor Forest and Stream: 
How strange that some people will make mountains out of 
mole hills. Such is the case with W. E. Buckmaster, Secretary 
of the Wawaset Gun Club, of this city, in his report of a 
friendly shoot between Messrs. White, Huber and Miller vs. 
Messrs. Hartlove, Burroughs and Gaughen, the former mem- 
bers of the Wawaset Gun Club, and the latter members of the 
Wilmington Hod and Gun Club, a little friendly shoot which 
the respective club's had nothing to do with, only to collect the 
money for targets shot at on the respective grounds. Mr. 
Buckmaster would like to make the readers of your valuable 
journal believe it was for the State championship, which is not 
the fact, and he knows it. In the second match on the 
Wawaset grounds, when the Wilmington Rod and Gun Club 
boys came out ahead, Mr. Buckmaster was not one half as 
anxious to get the scores and publish the same as he was when 
the third match was shot. The original teams were Messrs. 
White, Huber and Springer vs. Hartlove, Burroughs and 
Gaughen. On account of business, Mr.^Springer was unable to 
shoot and Mr. R. Miller (the best shot in their club) was substi- 
tuted on the first shoot of the series, The three races were well 
contested and interesting throughout, and no doubt have revived 
some interest in trapshooting, which for a while was lying 
dormant. Mr. Buckmaster is a little previous in claiming that 
the Wawaset Gun Club is superior to the Wilmington Rod and 
Gun Club, The superiority of the respective clubs has not been 
settled yet, but can be settled if they would shoot more and 
talk less; 10 or 15 men per side will settle it quick. 
DELAWARE. 1 
Boston Shooting- Association. 
The programme issued by the Boston Shooting Association 
for its three day's tournament at Wellington, Mass., on April 
9, 10 and 11, is varied and consequently interesting. JP or the 
first and second days the programmes are the same in nearly 
every respect. TherB are 12 events each day, calling for 230 
shots and a total entrance money of $27.60. There are four 10 
target races, seven 20 target races, and a 50 target race; the 
latter event has $100 guarantee, with a $6 entrance. On the 
first day it is shot at known angles; on the second day at 
unknown angles. Five otner eveuts are at known angles, five 
at unknown angles, and one, a 10 target affair, at traps in 
reversed order. For the third day there are eight events 
scheduled, the ma'u evpnt being No. 8, a team race, the con- 
ditions of which are as follows: "Five men from any State, 50 
targets per mau, 25 known augles, 25 unknown angles, entrance 
$30 pw team " The Rli event is at 10 pair, shot iu the usual 
mautier. Outside of the team race the programme calls for 110 
targets. All purses are divided 40, 30, 20 and 10 per cent. 
From present indications New Jersey will have a contingent 
of shooters at the tournament, while both that State and the 
State of New York will enter teams in event No, 8 on the last 
day. 
Emerald Gun Club. 
The regular monthly live bird shot of the Emerald Gun Club, 
of New York City, took place on Tuesday, March 19, at Dexter 
Park, L. I. As usual there was a good turn out of shooters. 
The club is limited to a membership of 50, but so great is the 
interest in their monthly shoots that over 30 entries for the 
club's handicap is the usual thing. On this occasion exactly 
36 members faced the traps. Of this number three, "Charles, " 
T. H. Keller and Gus Greiff, arepresentative of Von Lengerke 
& Detmold, killed their 10 birds. Seven others killed 9 each, 
Drs. Hudson and Klein barely missing a straight score by los- 
ing their 10th birds. The day was fine and the birds fair; the 
first half were only medium, but the last half included some 
hummers. Scores: 
Club shoot, 10 live birds per man, for club's yearly prizes: 
G E Greiff, 25 111121131 3-10 
T. H. Keller, 28 333133223 3—10 
1/-*///1h 
Charles,' 30 222212132 1—10 
1 H & 'v \-*-->-4 
M Herrington, 30 1133332023—9 
Dr G V Hudson, 38 1 113 1 2 1 3 3 0—9 
Dr Klein, 25 1 2 2 2 3 2.1 1.2 0-9 
Dr Leveridge, 30 0131211313- 9 
G Loeble, 28 1 * 3 1 3 2 3 1 2 1—9 
J H Richmond, 38 .,3 0 3 3 1 3 2 2 1 1—9 
R Woods, 30 2 2 2 2 2 * 2 3 3 2-9 
L C Gehring, 30 - 23 1 02 1 2 1 0 1—8 
>sll< — >-ll*,\7< 
N Maesel, 25 112 2 2 2 1 0 2 0—8 
F W Place, 28 2 2 2 2 1 0 0 2 2 1—8 
CWash, 23 2122202202—8 
F. Cody, 28 3 2 0 3 0 1 0 '3 1 3— 7 
E Doeinck ,30 123203202 0-7 
H P Fessenden, 2i 2 1 0 1 2 0 2 0 2 1—7 
\ ^ Si \ J, H H — *H 
W Levans, 28 1001221202—7 
J Maesel, 28 0 1 2 3 1 0 3 2 0 2—7 
G Nowak, 28 110110220 2—7 
tt 11^^^/^ 
T Short, 28. * 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 2 2— 7 
E Vroome, 28 0 2 1 » 1 1 2 2 0 1— 7 
J Woelfel, 28 ." 1 2 1 0 0 0 1 2 2 1—7 
E Bell, 28 2 2 0 0 2 2 0 2 2 0—6 
P BUtz, 28 0*2221200 2—6 
W E Hogan, 25 * 2 0 2 * 1 2 0 1 1- 6 
O Mulcahey, 28 2 1 3 2 2 0 0 1 0 0-6 
J H Voss, 30 2 1 0 0 2 2 0 2 1 0—6 
Hi A\\/-*/H 
L Fogarty, 30 021*2 0 2 0 0 1—5 
J C Hamilton, 25. . . 2 0 0 * 1 * 0 2 1 1—5 
W Hartye, 28 1 1 2 0 2 3 0 0 0 0—5 
C Maesel, 35 2 0 0 0 2 3 011 0 -5 
i t W^H^ 
J H Moore, 28 300312100 0—5 
T Purcell, 25 1 0 0 0 1 2 0 0 1 2—5 
R Regan, 25 2 0 1 0 0 0 2 0 3 3-5 
W J Amend, 35 0 0 0 3 0 0 1 2 0 0-3 
Trap-Shooting In BuiFalo. 
Buffalo, N. Y., March IS — The following scores were made 
this afternoon by the members of the Keystone Gun Club in 
the teeth of a heavy gale and with the mercury away down. 
Scores were shot at 15 singles and 5 pairs: 
F Desmond 111001111111111 11 11 11 11 01— £2 
w suiiy ooiiooiiiiiim io n ii ii u- i ;o 
S Duley 101111101001110 11 11 01 11 00—17 
F Kinney 001110101001110 11 11 11 11 11—18 
J Carlough 011000000111010 01 01 01 01 01—11 
J Parker 011011011001111 11 01 11 11 10—18 
M Joyce 101010100110110 10 10 11 10 01—14 
MDuggan llllllDllOHOOl 11 01 01 11 11- 9 
O Sampson 100100011011000 00 10 11 01 11—12 
A Robbius 011010001010100 00 00 10 10 00- 8 
J Avery ' 000111111010000 01 01 11 00 11—13 
FJ3. KINNEY, Sec'y. . . 
\ Endeavor Gun Club. 
Jersey City, N. J., March 23.— The Endeavor Gun Club held 
its prize shoot for March this afternoon on the club giounds at 
Marion, N.J. The attendance was small, only five membeis 
competing in the club shoot, which was shot at unknown angles 
Score? are as follows : : 
E Collins, 25 llllllOllllllllllOUlllll —23 
Strader, 30 110111010111111001010010011110111—21 
Piercy, 25 0111111110000111011101111 —18 
Creveling, 27 101101100101100011111001111 —17 
Ingram, 25 1001111111101010010110111 —17 
The other resulted as follows: 
No. 1. 15 targets, unknown angles: Strader 14, Ingram and 
Creveling 11, Collins 8, Piercy 7, Corson 4. 
No. 2, same: Creveling 13, Strader 12, Collins and Piercy 9, 
Onderdonk 7. 
No 3, same: Collins. Ingram and Creveling 11, Piercy 10, 
Strader 8. 
No. 4, same: Creveling 14, Piercy 12. Collins 9, Strader 8, 
Onderdonk 7. J. A. CREVELING, Sec'y. 
Pointers on the Knoxville Shoot. 
Mr. R. Van Gilder, Secretary of the "Knoxville, Tenn., Gun 
Club, sends the following, which will be read with interest by 
