98 
FOREST AND STREAM. 
fAro. 1, 1896. 
Presque Isle Rifle Club. 
July SB.— Keeular practice shoot. Oonditions: 800yds., ofif 
standard American target, 7-ring, black. Scores: 
JGQermann ..10 878797 10 9 
787679 10 87 
_ . 5 777 10 8686 
WFTrdber 797866878 
598886897 
47 10 579868 
JStldham , .„„ 7 10 75 10 7568 
10 847854 10 7 
586575958 
Geo Shafer. ., 6 9 10 7 8 7 9 5 5 
876696575 
83677 10 556 
OhasVanEtteD.,., 6 10 5695777 
9574874 10 6 
687873466 
GERahn 10 75876833 
65754487 10 
666668778 
Br Wheeler , 757679994 
865774569 
849596533 
WB PattoD 477659459 
875745649 
5 10 4447759 
Ohas Curry 55 10 969S5 5 
674-368794 
33667645 10 
ChasFroess 4675 1.0 8657 
644 558 10 86 
10 66844436 
-hand, 
7— 82 
6- 75 
9—72 
10—76 
e— 75 
9-78 
8— 73 
0—78 
8- 66 
9- 75 
4- 63 
5- ea 
9-72' 
3-68 
8- 63 
9- 65 
9-65 
7- 65 
7- TO 
10-67 
8- 60 
9- 65 
9-65 
6- 61 
8—70 
8- 62 
9- 59 
8-66 
7- 63 
7-58 
America Ahead at Bisley. 
Mr. Walter Winass has again carried off the honors at the Bisley 
revolver competitions, using f or the military series a .45cal. Smith & 
Wesson, -with his patent military front sight, and U. M. C. smokeless 
I>owder ammunition; and for the "Any," or target revolver series, a 
.44cal. Russian model Smith & Wesson, with U. M. C. gallery ammunf- 
tion. He won first in the military series: sliding target, diss ppearinji 
target, rapid firing, and advancing target matches, and second in the 
limited entry and the 50yd. target matches. In the "Any" series he 
•won first on sliding target, on disappearing target, in rapid firing, on 
50yd. target, advancine, and the military and "Any" revolver aggre- 
gates; with second In the "Any" limited entry. 
If you want your shoot to be announced here 
send in notice like the following i 
FIXTURES. 
Aug. 4-6.— Chicago, m.— Tournament of the Du Pont Smokeless 
Powder Company. E. 8. Rice, Mgr. 
Aug. 4, 5.— Aottirn, N. Y.— The Auburn Gun Club will hold a blue- 
rock tournament, using the "Maugatrap" for the first time in New 
York State; programs will be out in a few days. Mr. Paul North will 
have entire charge of the shoot. 
Aug. 5.— Sandusky, Ohio. — Annual tournament of theSandasky Gun 
Club; 8100 added money and $100 in merchandise prizes. 
Aug. 5-6.— Greenvillk, Texas.— North Texas Gun Club League, 
Two days. Targets. Will L. Sargent, Sec'y. 
Aug. 11.— Albany, N. Y.— Tourhampint of the West End Gun Club. 
Bluerock traps and targets. Horace B. Derby, Sec'y- 
Aug. 11-14.— Detroit. Mich.— Jack Parker's sixth annual Inter- 
national tournament. Fuller details later. 
Aug 12-13.— DuLT^B^, Minn.— Central Gun Club, fourth annual totirna- 
ment; excellent programme. 
Aug. 26-27. — BuRLiNOTON, Vt.— Tournament of the Interstate Asso- 
ciation, under the auspices of the Lake Side Rod and Gun Club. 
Aug. 26-27.— Kalamazoo. Mich.- Tournament of the Celery City Gun 
Club, in connection with Michigan Trap-Shooters' League. 
Aug. 81-Sept. 2. — St. Paul, Minn.— Annual tournament of the St. 
Paul Gun Club, at State Fair Grounds. B. F. Schurmeier, Sec'y. 
Sept. 2-4.— Btjff'alo, N. Y.— Tournament at Audubon Park. Targets 
and live birds. B. F. Smith, Manager. 
Sept. 7.— Marion, N. J.— Sixth annual tournament of the Endeavor 
Gun Club. Targets. J. A. Creveling, Sec'y. 
Sept. 8-10.— Galt, Ont.— First annual tournament of the Ontario 
Rod and Gun Club; gSOO to JfliOOO added money. 
Sept, 10.— West Lebanon, N. H.—AM-day shoot of the West Lebanon 
Gun Club. 
Sept. 15-16.— Kansas City, Mo.— Third annual tournament of the 
Schmelzer Arms Company; 8750 added money. 
Sept. 29.-Oct. 3.— Harrisburo, Pa. — Tournament of the Pennsyl- 
vania State Sportsmen's Association, under the auspices of the Harris- 
burg Shooting Association. First three days, targets; fourth day, 
live birds. 
Oct 6-8.— Indianapolis, Ind. — Autumn tournament of the Limited 
Gun Club. Open to amateurs only. Two days, targets; one day, 
pigeons and sparrows. Royal Bobinsqn, Sec'y. 
Oct. 7-9.— Newbubqh, N. Y. — Annual fall tournament of the West 
NewburgbGim and Rifle Association; targets and live birds added 
money announced later, 
1897. 
March 23-25.— New York City.— The Interstate Association's fifth 
annual Grand American Handiosp at live birds. 
June (third week).— Cleveland, O.— Fourth annual tournament of 
the Chamberlin Cartridge and Target Company, 
DRIVERS AND TWISTERS. 
CTtib tecretaries are invited to send their tcorea for publication in 
these columns, also any news notes they may care to have printedl. 
JHes in all events are considered as divided unless otherwise reported. 
Mail all such matter to Forest and Stream Fublishing Company, SUB 
Broadway^ New York. 
The Thomaston Gun Club was organized last week with the follow 
ing oflacers: President, Chas. W. Sherwood; Vice-President, W. R. 
Taylor, Jr. ; Secretary and Treasurer, Chas. B. Onderdonk; Field Cap- 
tain, R 0. Warren. The club will hold shoots every other Saturday 
afternoon on the grounds at Thomaston, L. L, commencing Aug. 1. 
Any person wishing to receive notice of open sweepstake days will 
send their narres to the secretary. 
The second annual tournament of the Monroe Gun Club will be held 
at Monroe, La., Aug. 19, 20, 21 and 22 The two first days' shooting 
will be at inanimate targets, ten events each day, 20 birds to an event; 
$15 will be added per event by the club The two last days will be 
given up to the shooting of 1,000 live pigeons; entrance per 10-bird 
match $7.50, all surplus to be added. A. 8. A. rules to govern, except 
black powder and lO gauge guns will be barred. Open to the world; 
no handicaps, five moneys. For further information, address the 
secretary, Harry Wm. Stevenson. 
Next week should witness the gathering together of a large crowd 
of live-bird shooters at Watson's Park, Chicago, 111. The tournament 
of the Du Pont Smokeless Powder Company, under the management 
of Mr. E. 8. Rice, MoHsrs. Du Pont de Nemours's Western agent, will 
be the attraction. The contest for the Du Pont Smokeless Powder 
handicap trophy, now held by Fred Gilbert, is the main event, with a 
team contest a close second. Live birds only will be used during the 
tournament. 
On Aug. 4-5 the Auburn, N. Y., Gun Club will hold a target tournar- 
ment with Paul North and his magautrap as the special features. As 
there has been no target-sbooting in New York State to amount to 
much since the State shoot at Buffalo the first week in June, with the 
sole exception of the Syracuse shoot, the Aubvurn Gun Club should 
have a good shoot. All who attend will have a thoroughly pleasant 
time; Messrs. George Corning, Jr., Charlie Tuttle, Carr, Brigden, etc., 
will certainly see to that part of the programme beiag satisfactorily 
carried out. 
Jack Parker has, as usual, gotten out an interesting programme for 
his shoot at Detroit, Aug. 11-14. A special point of interest is the fact 
that all purses will be divided on the Rose system. There will be five 
moneys with ratio points of 8, 5, 3, 2 and 1. 
Phil Daly, Jr., will no doubt see to it that there will be plenty of 
shooting this fall at Elkwood Park. Leander Campbell and his black- 
birds will be heard of at that popular shooting resort many times be- 
fore the winter's frosts and snow drive the blackbirds from their roosts 
n the reed beds of New Jersey. Mr. Daly won the main event at the 
Holly wood groimds on Saturday last, July 25, by scoring his 15 live 
birds without a skip. 
The New Jersey Amateur Trapn-Sbooters' League held its second 
shoot on the grounds of the Boiling Springs Gun Club, Rutherford, 
N. J., on July 25. AU five clubs forming this new organization were 
represented by teams, the winners In the team race being the Bergen 
County Gun Club, who beat the Endeavors, of Jersey City, by the 
narrow margin of 2 breaks. 
The next tournament of the Interstate Association will be held at 
Burlington, Vc, on Aug. 28-37. The tournament will be held under 
the auspices of the Lake Side Rod and Gun Club of that city. There 
are several good gun clubs in Vermont, and these clubs can boast of 
naany excellent shots. The gun clubs of Montreal and others located 
along the border can also be looked upon as likely to furnish some 
competitors at this tournament. Those who attend will be able to 
take away with them a pointer or two on running tourncments. The 
Interstate Association's mission is to instruct, and during Its career, 
both this season and in past years. It has done much to boom trap- 
shooting In all parts of this country. 
The Rose system is making new friends every day, A simple ex- 
planation of Its workings, like that which we gave in our issue of July 
11 and which we repeat in this Issue, does much to help on the work of 
familiarizing shooters with its capabilities. The Rose system Is a 
good thing and should be pushed along. 
The boys have had lots to s ay during the past week In regard to the 
coming championship race between Helkes and Gilbert for the World's 
Championship cup, presented by the American E. C. Powder Co., em- 
blematic of the championship of the world at inanimate targets. As 
some of the boys say, "There's going to be a tight race between the 
Bald Eagle of the Ohio Valley and The Houlihan of Spirit Lakel" 
B. F. Smith, of Audubon Park, Buffalo, N. Y., announces a three- 
days' tournament at live birds and targets for Sept. 2-4. "Buffalo" 
Smith has good grounds at his command; thev are easily reached by 
electric cars from the center of the city. With the support of the 
shooters of Buffalo city- and Smith certainly can reckon on that- the 
September shoot at Audubon Park ought to be a very pleasant affair. 
We have received the following telegram from E. S. Rice, repre- 
sentative of the Du Pont Smokeless Powder Co., and manager of their 
tournament, to be held at Chicago, Aug. 4, 5 and 0: "Please an- 
nounce to shooting public the refusal of Eastern and Southern asso- 
ciations to reduce rates to our tournament. Western and South- 
western roads promptly granted round trip for one and a third fare." 
6 6 7 8 
8 
7 8 9 8 7 
3 9 10 10 9 
4 7.. 3 5 
9 lO 11 
8 9 8 
8 9 
8 4 
4 6 
On the New Utreclit's Grounds. 
Brooklyn, N. Y., July 18.— Capt. A. W. Money and A. A. Hegeman 
shot a match at 30 singles and 10 pairs to-day on the grounds of the 
New Utrecht Gun Club, on Dyker Meadow. The match was for the 
New Utrecht challenge plate, which Capt. Money won on Deo. 7, 1895, 
and has since held, defeating in turn Dr. Littlefleld, Deacon and Hege- 
man. After the match a number of lO-target sweeps were shot. 
Scores: 
Oapt Money 111101111101111101100010111111—28 
11 00 10 11 11 11 10 01 10 10—13—36 
A A Hegeman.. 001111100111001111001111011110—20 
01 00 11 10 00 10 11 00 10 11—10—30 
Events: 12 3 4 
D Deacon 8 8 7 8 
Capt Money ,, , 8 9 9 8 
BAdams 8 8 8 9 
A A Hegeman 3 6 3 7 
July 25.— The regular weekly shoot of the New Utrecht Gun Club 
was held on Dyker Meadow to-day. In the club shoot Hegeman won 
the Class A medal with 21 kills, while Pool and O'Brien won Class B 
and Class C medals respectively, because they had nobody to shoot 
against. Adams and O'Brien shot a 15-target match which 
O'Brien won, 14 to 12. The sweeps were all at 10 targets; Nos. 1 and 
2, known angles; No. 8, expert rules; No 4, 5 pairs; and No 6, reversed 
angles. Scores: 
Club shoot, 25 targets, known angles: 
A A Hegeman (A) 0111110111111110101111111—21 
P Adams CA) 1110111011001111101011111—19 
D C Bennett CA) 1100111111101111101110011—19 
Dr. O'Brien (0) , 0011101111111111010001111—18 
GEPool (B) i.,... , 0011111011111101001011111—18 
M Van Brunt (A) 0001101111101010100011000—12 
Hegeman badge shoot, 15 targets, known angles: 
Adams 111111111101111—14 O'Brien 111001111101101—11 
Bennett 111111101011101—18 Van Brunt 101011001111111—11 
Hegeman 110101111110111—12 Pool ....110010001010111— 9 
Events: 1 2 
Adams,,...,.....,,. 9 9 
Hegeman, 8 6 
Bennett 8 
Van Brunt 7 
3 4 6 Events: 18 3 
9 3 9 Pool 6 9 7 
6 8 4 Adams „,.. 8 7 7 
9 6 8 8 O'Brien .. .. 7 
4 5 5 6 
4. 5 
6 .. 
2 5 
2 6 
The Rose System. 
1 It is with great pleasure that we note Jack Parker's Inteotlon of 
giving the Rose system of dividing purses a trial at his annual tour- 
nament in Detroit, Mich., Aug. 11-14. These annual affairs at Detroit 
are always very popular, chiefly on accoimt of the personal friend- 
ship entertained by trap-shooters in general for the manager and pro- 
moter of the tournaments. The attendance at the Detroit gatherings 
is always satisfactory, so that there at least is an excellent chance 
for what may be termed a public trial of the system we think so 
highly of. 
During the past year and a half we have repeatedly called attention ■ 
to the many excellent features of this system, and It appears as if the 
trap-shooting public was at length beginning to awaken to the bene- 
fits likely to accrue to its favorite sport by a general adoption of this 
system. The fact that the system absolutely prevents the dropping 
for place and the pooling of issues incident to the old system is In it- 
self a great thing. Its best feature, however, is that It is an equitable 
system, paying a man strictly according to his deserts. 
In a comparatively recent issue of a certain sportsmen's paper, a 
correspondent, writing on the subject of handicaoping the expert, 
closes his remarks with the following: "Use the Rose system instead 
of class shooting » * *." The above shows that even as yet some 
enthusiasts who are in favor of the Rose system do not thoroughly 
grasp what the system really is. The Rose system was devised spe- 
cially to preserve cias* sTiooWnsr, and to do away with the injustices 
that are necessarily a part of the division of the purses when the old 
Btystem Is In use. 
In our issue of July 11 we gave a very full explanation of the work- 
ings of this system, and also gave an example showing how very sim- 
ple it is when one comes down to practical work in a cashier's office 
at a tournament. With the idea of thoroughly familiarizing shooters 
with the system, we again give the explanation of it that appears in 
the programmes issued by the Interstate Association, together with 
the example quoted above: . 
(1) Decide upon the number of moneys into which the purse is to 
be divided, and then flnd the ratio Into which it will be divided from 
the following table: 
If Into 
2 moneys— at the ratio of 5 to 3. 
3 moneys — at the ratio of 5 and 3 to 2. 
4 moneys— at the ratio of 5, 3 and 2 to 1. 
5 moneys — at the ratio of 8, 5, 3 and 2 to 1, 
6 moneys - at the ratio of 13, 8, 5, 3 and 2 to 1. 
(2) For the sake of example in working out this system, let us take 
a 15-target event, $1.50 entrance. <1 moneys, 24 entries,.$10 added to the 
purses, targets at 3 cents each. This will give us a net purse of $35.20, 
targets taking $10.80 out of the total purse. Suppose when the event 
has been shot there are three straight scores: one 14, four ISs and one 
12. Under the old percentage system of 40, 30, 20 and 10 per cent, 
class shooting, It is manifest that the single 14 would have the best of 
the four men with straight scores, while the man with 12 would also 
be better off financially than either of the four men who broke one 
more target than he did. Under the Rose system this temptation to 
drop for place Is done away with. Proof of this is given below: 
The ratio points are 5, 3 and 2 to 1, Therefore, 
No. of ties for 1st money 3X5=15 
No. of ties for 2d money 1X8= 3 
No. of ties for 3d money 4X2= 8 
No. of ties for 4th money 1X1= 1 
27)$35.20(»1.30 
37 per ratio point. 
li" 
81 
10 cents over. 
Therefore, 
each man with 15 receives $1..30x5=$6.50 
each man with 14 receives 1.30x3= 3.90 
each man with 13 receives 1.30x2= 2.60 
each man with 12 receives 1.30X1= 130 
Under the system usually adopted at tournaments, the three men 
In for first money would have received g4. 69 each; the man with 14 
alone taking second money, $10.56; the four men in for third money 
would have drawn down 81.76 each, but the shooter who had the luck 
to drop one more target would have received fourth money, $3. 53, or 
just double their share. 
It may seem from the above that the system is a complicated one, 
and would Involve a great deal of work in the cashier's department. 
To disabuse one of this idea, we give an example of an event, the 
third event on the second day of the Iowa State tournament, working 
out the example by a system learned from the cashier at the Bing- 
hamton, N. Y., tournament. It will be noticed that he rules each page 
off into five columns; in the first he enters the names of the shooters: 
in the second he places their respective scores, He then ascertains 
the place obtained by each man and puts in the third column the num- 
ber of points due to him. At the bottom of this column he figures up 
the total number of points, dividing the net 'purse by that sum. In 
the fourth column he places the amount due each man, checks it off 
as soon as the amount Is paid, or the cash equivalent placed in the pay 
envelope. The fifth column Is used for figuring the net purse and 
for finding the value of each point. 
Event No. 3. 15 targets. Entrance $1.50. Added money . 
No. of entries, 27. Price of targets, 3 cents. No. of moneys, 4. 
Grimm 
Hoffman .... 
Gilbert 
Schricker 
Raisch 
Wehrend . . , , 
Minard 
Avery 
Webster 
Budd 
Trotter 
Miller 
Harbaugh... 
Couger ...... 
Tucker 
VBoltenstern 
Jones.. 
Northrup 
Bos worth.... 
MBoltenst'rn 
Henry 
Cook 
Agard , . 
Foley .! 
HBoltenst'm 
Lewis 
Samuelson . . 
15 
11 
12 
15 
13 
14 
12 
10 
12 
15 
13 
10 
9 
9 
14 
11 
11 
11 
10 
12 
12 
IS 
18 
15 
12 
15 
10 
Add amotmt over. 
48 
a 
.67 
3.35 
1.84 
3.01 
.67 
.67 
3.35 
1.34 
2.01 
.67 
,67 
3.35 
1.34 
3.35 
.67 
8.85 
.24 
$32.40 
entries at $1.50 ...= 
Deduct for targets at 2ct8. each= 
40.5 
8.1' 
Net purse. 
48* 
per point. 
S 
8S 
24c 
* Divide net purse by sum of the points. 
«o^? *5^,9'<ier system each man who broke 15 would have received 
»^.16; each 14 would have drawn down $4.86, while the 13s would have 
received exactly the same amount as the 8tralghts-$3.16; each 12 
would have been paid 54 cents. 
It is a simple matter for anybody to take a copy of Forest and 
STREAM and work out any number of similar examples. It looks to us 
as If the duties of a cashier's office were lightened rather than ren- 
dered more arduous by the introduction of the Rose system. 
CwciK^^Ti.— Editor forest and Stream: I cannot recall the time 
wnen 1 have read anything else with so much interest as your editorial 
explanation of the Rose system, and I am sure I never read anything 
of more profit concerning the equity of trap-shooting. All com- 
binations of winnings, after the ratios are once determined, adjust 
P?®???"'®^ ^^^^ admirable, mathematical nicety and justness 
that the only strange feature of the whole matter is that it was not 
adopted sooner. 
Forest and Stream Is deserving of great credit for advocating this 
system and so forciblv presenting its merits. It is fair to the amateur 
and expert ahke, all those who are expert enough to enter into con- 
sideration in arranging the winnings and honors of the competition. 
It a shooter has no skill he is entitled to no consideration In the 
awards. 
The entire absence of any uniformity In the working of the older 
system, and the constantly recurring circumstance of a shooter win- 
ning more money by breaking less or killing less birds than some 
other competitor, should have condemned that system long ago. It 
had nothing to commend It and much to condemn it. Owing to the 
uncertainty of its worktag and its entire Inefficiency In evoking even 
and honest competition, it was unworthy the name of a system. 
Nothing is a system which has not settled procedure in it which will 
m an orderly manner end in certain desu-ed results. The older sys- 
tem (let us call It that for the want of a better term) so constantly 
miscarried and offered such numberless opportunities for a man to 
reap greater reward by shooting, not to do his utmost, but to govern 
his score by the opportunities which the defects of the system pre- 
- sented, that it is not strange that "dropping for place" became almost 
a recognized feature of trap-shooting. It was a natural product of 
the system. Shooters have been blamed for taking advantage of the 
system, when the system honestly followed was an insult to their in- 
telligence and a defeat of skill, for the better a man shot so that he 
was in the best class, the less he received, and it was not an infre- 
quent happening that the expert did not receive enough to pay for his 
ammunition. Yet in the face of the fact that a faulty system was 
forced on the public, one which rarely ever produced fair results, it 
was a difficult matter to induce the trial of other systems, so firmly 
do habit and tradition enslave the masses. Considering the constant 
unfairness of the old system and the premium It offered on "dropping 
for place," it Is a most extraordinary feature of the trap-shooting 
world that so many kept on shooting straight under a system which 
so palpably worked an injustice to them. In the many arguments 
against the "dropper" and denunciations of him, I never noted any 
denunciation of a dishonest system, for if it was dishonest for the 
"dropper" to shoot for the place which resulted in the most profit and 
not shoot at his best, it was equally dishonest to force a shooter to 
compete under a system which beat him out of his just rewards. The 
competition professed to be founded on a principle of skill, and the 
skillful shooter found in the result that his skill was quite likely to ac- 
complish his defeat. The older system militated against skill. Not 
infrequently did the men in second place win more than the men in 
first, and not infrequently did the third men win more than either, as 
has been most clearly shown in your admirable article, to which I re- 
ferred In the beginning of this letter. 
Thus, with a system (the Rose system) which works with absolute 
mathematical precision, with its incentive to every man to shoot at his 
best with the full knowledge that he will be rewarded according to his 
skill, and with the incidental elimination of all the abuses and odium 
which were inseparable under the old system, there should not be any 
hesitation in deciding between the two systems. With the adoption of 
the Rose system, aside from its justness, there would be detached so 
much of stigma of the old system that the trap world would be puri- 
fied and start on a future whose great prosperity and good fellowship 
no one can forecast. Push It. 
Walsrode Gun Club. 
GuiLPOBD, N. Y., July 20.— Inclosed flnd a sample of the clay-smash- 
ing work at practice of the Walsrode Gun Club, of Guilford. N. Y.: 
Chase 10001111111110111111—16 G Hyatt.,. 10010010011101111011— 13 
Tiffany. . . .00111111111011001111—15 Kinney . . . .11101100001011011110— 12 
GodshaU . .11111011110100111010—14 J Hyatt.. . .00000001000111000110— 6 
Darling..,. 01101010111100111011— 13 Wads. 
