besides,  well,  besides  both  these,  we  must  conserve  both  the 
forest  and  the  water  in  order  to  save  our  soils.  Water  is 
necessary  for  the  growth  of  plants,  it  is  necessary  for  our  do- 
mestic stock.  If  any  one  of  us  discovers  that  he  has  a hole 
in  his  money  pocket,  he  mends  it;  it  seems  to  me  that  the 
Territory  has  a hole  in  its  money  pocket,  and  the  Legislature 
should  see  that  there  is  a hole  there  and  try  and  stop  it,  in 
order  that  loss  of  actual  property  resources  shall  no  longer 
continue. 
Senator  Fairchild.  May  I ask  a question  in  regard  to  one 
matter?  That  is  in  regard  to  the  Kona  district.  There  has 
been  a bill  introduced  in  the  Senate  by  Senator  Baker,  I be- 
lieve. I want  to  ask  if  that  is  the  same  district  which  this 
bill  will  cover. 
Senator  Smith.  Yes,  it  does ; Kona  and  Puna — the  same  dis- 
trict. 
The  Chairman.  I think  it  does.  The  Forest  Committee  of 
the  House  was  very  much  pleased  when  Judge  Dole  consented 
to  address  you.  I am  going  to  call  on  the  Judge  now.  He  will 
address  you  on  forests  as  affecting  rainfall. 
Judge  Sanford  B.  Dole.  Mr.  Chairman,  Ladies  and  Gen- 
tlemen : 
Mr.  Hosmer  has,  I think,  sufficiently  dealt  with  the  subject 
of  forests  as  affecting  conservation  of  water  for  irrigation  pur- 
poses and  for  purposes  of  power.  Mr.  Jared  G.  Smith  has  car- 
ried on  the  discussion  of  that  proposition  a little  further  and 
brought  up  the  matter  of  conservation  for  the  collection  of 
water  in  districts  where  there  are  no  streams  for  the  purposes 
of  irrigation  and  domestic  use.  Hawaii  is  a large  island  with 
a pretty  dry  interior,  and  between  this  large  interior  and  the 
outside  slopes  of  the  island  are  large  and  extensive  forests. 
Hawaii  has  never  been  explored  thoroughly,  but  it  is  being 
explored  at  the  present  time  in  regard  to  its  forest  assets  from 
a commercial  standpoint.  Those  of  us  who  have  grown  up 
in  these  islands  and  have  seen  the  clouds  pass  wooded  ridges 
and  over  the  dry  slopes  beyond  have  noticed  how  the  clouds 
disappear,  lessen,  and  finally  are  gone,  and  how  in  some  parts 
of  the  islands,  as  in  Haiku  on  Maui,  rains  will  exist  all  day 
over  the  forest  in  that  region,  the  trade  winds  carrying  the 
clouds  along  past  the  forest,  over  the  dryer  lands  where  the 
different  plantations  are  cultivating  cane  by  irrigation,  and 
how  these  showers  gradually  disappear  as  the  forest  areas  are 
left  behind — we  cannot  help  believing  that  forests  have  an 
effect  on  rainfall,  in  these  islands  at  least.  The  operation  is 
observable  to  the  eye,  and  the  effect  of  forests  in  that  rela- 
tion is  not  limited  to  the  actual  area  of  the  forests.  It  is,  I 
