believe,  ascertained  that  the  air  from  forests  is  cooler  than 
the  air  from  lands  devoid  of  vegetation,  and  this  is  one  reason 
why  clouds  appear  above  forests  and  not  over  surrounding 
regions  that  are  devoid  of  vegetation  and  where  the  air  above 
them  is  saturated,  is  full  of  moisture ; the  cooling  air  is  more 
likely  to  produce  showers  than  the  air  from  other  regions 
which  are  bare  of  vegetation.  It  may  be  said  perhaps  more 
correctly,  not  that  forests  create  showers  or  produce  them,  but 
rather  that  they  allow  the  showers  to  come  down.  They  re- 
move the  obstacles.  The  islands,  as  has  been  said,  have  all  the 
problems  of  conservation  except  those  that  relate  to  mines. 
And  it  is  probable  that  we  have  suffered  almost  as  much  as 
the  United  States  in  the  loss  of  forests,  for  since  the  time 
that  cattle  were  introduced  in  these  islands  by  Vancouver 
and  have  increased,  forest  destruction  has  gone  on  mainly 
through  their  ravages,  which  has  destroyed  the  undergrowth, 
thus  causing  the  forest  to  recede.  It  is  in  the  memory  of  not 
very  old  people  how  the  forests  between  here  and  Waialua 
came  nearly  down  to  the  road,  how  the  large  forests  on  Mauna 
Haleakala  came  nearly  down  to  the  mission,  and  that  all  over 
the  islands  recession  of  forests  has  been  very  noticeable.  And 
the  forests  that  are  left  are  the  merely  commercial  assets  or  are 
something  to  be  preserved  permanently  for  the  protection  of 
the  agricultural  and  domestic  interests  of  these  islands.  I was 
just  talking  with  Mr.  Herbert  as  I came  in.  Mr.  Herbert  is 
very  strong  against  destroying  forests  for  any  purpose.  He 
believes  that  it  is  a mistake.  I am  under  the  impression  that 
forests  to  be  taken  care  of  according  to  the  most  modern 
scientific  methods  must  be  taken  care  of  with  a view  of  re- 
ceiving some  revenue  from  them.  The  government  gets  tired 
of  giving  out  money  perpetually  to  protect  a forest.  If  the 
forest  can  only  pay  its  own  expenses,  or  yield  some  revenue, 
the  probability  of  its  being  taken  care  of  is  much  better.  The 
proposition  is  up  to  the  government  now  in  regard  to  the 
forests  of  Kona  and  Kau.  Enterprising  companies  are  asking 
the  government  to  allow  them  to  cut  down  some  of  these  big 
old  forests  that  were  hardly  known  to  exist  a few  years  ago, 
and  the  government  don’t  know  exactly  what  to  do.  If  forests 
have  no  affect  on  the  rainfall,  they  might  just  as  well  cut  those 
forests  down  and  sell  the  lumber  and  make  what  they  can  out 
of  them ; but  if  the  forests  do  affect  the  rainfall,  as  I believe 
they  do,  then  it  is  up  to  the  government  to  see  that  those 
forests  are  maintained.  The  lumber  may  be  cut  down  and 
sold,  but  it  is  up  to  the  government  to  see  that  those  forests 
are  maintained  and  that  new  trees  are  allowed  to  grow  and 
be  cultivated  and  protected  from  cattle.  Now,  the  reason  of 
this  is  mainly  for  the  small  landholder,  I think.  Kona,  North 
Kona,  has  the  beginnings  of  a sugar  plantation,  but  there  are 
great  areas  of  land  there  that  are  populated  by  Hawaiians 
