490 
Mr.  Campbell.  I so  take  it.  Now  we  come  right  down,  gentle- 
men, to  the  proposition,  what  can  the  Government  do,  and  what 
can  the  interests  in  Kohala  do?  We  are  all  here,  and  I think 
everybody  is  agreed  on  the  importance  of  this  thing,  and  the 
necessity  of  some  action  being  taken  to  reforest  Kohala.  From 
the  standpoint  of  the  Government  within  the  next  two  years  and 
a half,  if  the  land  is  acquired,  the  Government  can  expend  a stated 
sum  of  money  in  reforesting  those  areas  that  may  need  reforest- 
ing, and  in  fencing.  The  Government  is  not  in  a position,  gen- 
tlemen, to  purchase  the  lands  required  in  Kehena  2,  and  the  other 
lands.  If  those  lands  are  absolutely  necessary  to  the  forest 
reserve  in  Kohala,  it  is  up  to  the  interests  in  Kohala  to  aid  the 
Government ; but  for  the  Government  to  go  in  and  purchase  those 
lands,  it  simply  means  another  forest  reserve  on  paper,  because  all 
the  money  that  could  possibly  be  devoted  to  that  forest  reserve 
would  have  to  go  then  to  the  purchase  of  lands.  But  if  the  Ko- 
hala interests  will  aid  the  Government  in  securing  these  lands, 
why  we  can  immediately  start  proceedings.  I believe  any  money 
that  the  Government  puts  into  this  thing  should  be  devoted  ex- 
clusively to  fencing  and  reforesting. 
Mr.  Swanzy.  I would  like  to  suggest,  Mr.  Chairman,  that  in 
order  to  classify  things,  we  learn  exactly  how  the  lands  in  ques- 
tion are  held.  My  understanding  is  that  for  these  lands,  2428 
acres  being  the  larger  land,  Kehena,  is  owned  by  the  Woods 
Estate. 
Mr.  Campbell.  Yes. 
Mr.  Swanzy.  That  the  next  land  to  that,  463  acres,  something 
like  that,  463  acres  it  is  on  the  map,  is  owned  by  Mr.  Frank 
Woods ; that  the  next  piece  to  that,  Kahua  2,  is  owned  by  the 
Austin  Estate,  and  the  mauka  piece  of  all,  Kahua  liilii,  is  a piece 
of  782  acres  owned  by  the  Government.  Now  we  have  here  today 
the  representatives,  if  I understand  it  rightly,  of  the  Woods 
Estate,  of  Mr.  Frank  Woods,  of  the  Austin  Estate,  and  it  seems 
to  me  that  it  would  be  a good  idea  to  learn  from  these  gentlemen 
what  their  idea  of  the  value  of  these  properties  is,  what  they 
would  be  disposed  to  sell  them  for.  The  Kohala  people  may  have 
a little  difficulty  in  arriving  at  conclusions  regarding  the  way  in 
which  any  purchases  that  may  be  made  shall  be  divided,  but  be- 
fore they  can  approach  that  matter  at  all,  they  must  know  how 
much  it  is  that  is  to  be  divided,  then  there  is  to  consider  how  much 
money  is  to  be  expended  and  then  if  they  think  that  the  reforest- 
ing of  this  land  is  not  commensurate  with  the  expense,  why  then 
we  can  drop  the  thing,  but  the  first  thing  to  find  out,  in  my  hum- 
ble opinion,  is  what  the  owners  of  these  lands  ask  for^the  land, 
and  in  the  second  place  what  the  Government  that  owns  782  acres, 
if  that  is  the  area,  would  do  with  its  land.  In  what  way  would 
the  Government  propose  to  participate  in  this  reforestation  ? 
Supposing  that  it  was  undertaken,  the  Government  has  /82  acres. 
Would  the  Government  give  up  that  land  for  the  purpose  of  the 
forest,  would  they  participate  in  the  cost  of  fencing?  What  in 
