J. A. WILL, G. E. BISGARD, A. V. RUIZ AND R. F. GROVER 
273 
, Dr. Will: Well, we have an increase in car- 
j diac output, but I don't remember the magni- 
tude. Do you. Dr. Bisgard? 
G. E. BisCARD, University of Wisconsin, 
Madison : I'd like to comment on that since I 
worked on that oxygen transport data. The A-V 
differences were not changed. Mixed venous 
PO2 was decreased by about 2 mm of mercury. 
So, this suggested that we had to have a shift to 
the right of the dissociation curve. Plotting Van 
Slyke data against our arterial and venous 
POo's suggested quite a marked shift to the 
right of the oxygen dissociation curve. There 
was only a small increase in cardiac output, and 
there was no change in RQ and oxygen consump- 
tion. 
Chairman Lenfant: If I may, I'd like to 
comment on that one. Do you have evidence that 
the bovine's blood is responsive to diphospho- 
glycerate? 
Dr. Will: Well, it has been my understand- 
ing that they don't have much 2, 3 DPG. 
Chairman : Then how come the curve shifted 
that much ? 
Dr. Will : I don't know. Dr. Alexander men- 
tioned in his paper a little while ago that they 
found an increase in 2, 3 DPG. Isn't that right? 
But there was no shift in the curve. Is that cor- 
rect? 
Chairman: In addition to that, unless I 
missed it, I thought you were speaking of an al- 
titude of about 3,800 meters. Is it not what you 
were talking about? 
Dr. Will : 3,400. 
Chairman: 3,400 meters. I would be quite 
cautious to give too much value or too much sig- 
nificance to the shift of the curve, if any, at that 
altitude. 
Dr. Will : Well, we didn't mention it, as you 
noticed, until the discussion. 
Sung Park, Yeshiva University, Bronx, 
N.Y. : Did you find any correlation between 
high altitudes and lactate production due, in 
part, to increased brain metabolism? 
Dr. Will: In 1967, when we studied seden- 
tary and training subjects at Leadville, we were 
unable to correlate any of the lactate data with 
any changes, either in the sedentary group or 
the trained group, at altitude. There was no cor- 
relation that we could determine at all, and we 
have felt that the central respiratory medullary 
centers were not depressed at altitudes through 
the use of the drug doxapram. 
Chairman : I wonder if I could ask a ques- 
tion of Dr. Will and also perhaps Dr. Gillespie 
at the same time? I have been intrigued by 
what is meant by upper part of the lung in 
cows, horses or quadrupeds. Are you talking 
about the apical or dorsal part of the lung? 
Dr. Will : In our work, we're speaking about 
the dorsal part of the lung when the animal is 
in its normal standing position, so it's not anal- 
ogous to the apex in man. 
Chairman: But then that brings me back to 
your paper, Dr. Gillespie. I believe that in the 
human there is clear evidence that on meta- 
static lesion, the blood is mostly in the upper 
part of the lung and that, of course, substanti- 
ates the recent observation of West on the 
stress that is applied to the lung due to gravita- 
tional forces. My question is, in horses do we 
have some special localization or typical locali- 
zation of metastatic lesion? 
Dr. Gillespie : They are primarily in the api- 
cal area of the lung ; so the correlation from top 
to bottom isn't a good one between man and the 
horse. In other words, the first and the most se- 
vere lesions that you'll see in a horse lung is in 
the apical area. This doesn't necessarily pre- 
clude the possibility that confirmation of the 
chest may induce different stresses on the lung, 
just as it does in man, but gravity, of course, 
would not. Fred Hoppin and I looked at the dis- 
tribution of pleural pressure in the horse's lung 
in various positions. 
Chairman: I think it's a very important 
issue. I wonder, did you discuss that with John 
West and try to conciliate your observations? 
He's a firm believer that one of the most signifi- 
cant factors in the development of metastatic le- 
sion may be the world's gravitational forces, 
and apparently what you said does not really 
corroborate his views. 
Dr. Gillespie: Yes, John West and I have 
discussed at some length the distribution of 
pressure in the human being and in the horse 
and also the distribution of lesions. As far as 
we're concerned, his observations and ours are 
not reconcilable at this point. 
Chairman: In conclusion, I would like to 
