S. POTKAY AND J. D. BACKER 
1065 
our donor colony. Prior to that time, the investi- 
gators asked us for dogs. They requested either 
operating dogs, table dogs, surgical dogs, or 
donor dogs. The dogs were sent to their labora- 
tories and were exsanguinated there. Much of 
the resistance that we had initially even to 
supplying blood was related to the fact that in- 
vestigators would not accept blood that was 
drawn somewhere else and had to be shipped 
and maybe spend about three or four hours in 
transit. They said this blood would be no good. I 
think that just the converse has proven true 
here. 
Dr. Stormont : Very good. Are you breeding 
your colony dogs now? To simplify the matter, 
why don't you eliminate the A red cell factor? 
Just get it out of your colony? 
Dr. Potkay: We have done that in our 
breeding colony. 
Questioner (unidentified) : We have trouble 
with the personality of the colony-reared dogs 
in comparison with the random source dogs. I 
wondered if you have any comments about mak- 
ing these dogs more practical for us ? 
Dr. Potkay : Well, that's a problem that we 
have encountered also. The only thing that 
seems to work in our situation is to have the an- 
imal caretakers handle the dogs as frequently as 
possible. The puppies have to be handled and 
played with on occasion. They have to be taken 
out of their individual kennels, put on leashes, 
and walked around a bit. If you don't do that 
and keep them in the same cage or kennel in 
which they were born, then they become terri- 
bly withdrawn. Some of them become a little 
more aggressive than would be desirable. We 
find that only by continuous handling can we 
make them of acceptable temperament. 
J. Moor-Jankowski, New York University, 
New York: I was quite interested in your an- 
swer to the question of Dr. Stormont, which I 
did not completely understand. Are all factors 
included in the price of the dogs ? Is this a com- 
pletely self-supporting enterprise or do you 
have subsidies? 
Dr. Potkay : As far as we know, this repre- 
sents a fair price. We get our figures from the 
financial management people. Obviously, we 
have a number of accounts. The numbers and 
figures are maintained at a central area, and pe- 
riodically we're advised as to whether the dogs 
are costing more or less than what we're ac- 
tually charging for them. 
E. I. Goldsmith, Cornell Medical Center, 
New York : I think that the matter of the cost 
of the random source dog is a terribly impor- 
tant point. In New York, which is generally re- 
garded to be the perhaps the highest cost of liv- 
ing area in the country, we are being charged 
approximately 30 per cent less for a random 
source dog than you are charging, which seems 
to me to clearly emphasize the fact that many 
animal care facilities throughout the country 
are receiving hidden subsidies of which all of us 
should be aware. The institutions we are asso- 
ciated with have a heavy investment in the ani- 
mal care facilities that is not reflected in our in- 
dividual project grants and the prices we're 
paying are very unrealistic in terms of the ani- 
mals we're purchasing. 
