SCHWINDAMAN, CONNOR, MCPHERSON, PIERCE, NORMAN, CASS, PARKER & HARMISON 1285 
are ways by which this can be achieved without 
costly waste of resources. Dogs runs are expen- 
sive and sit idle for long periods in most facili- 
ties. For example, it might be better to use tread 
mills or bull-ring type exercisers which would 
assure that the animal received its exercise. 
These are less expensive and occupy less space 
than runs. 
We do not know how much and what kind of 
exercise is most effective for keeping an animal 
in optimum health. What do we use for criteria? 
A certain increase in cardiac output? Elevating 
the minute volume of respired air by some in- 
crement? Different animals have different re- 
quirements. There are many research groups 
in the United States which are qualified and 
have the capability to conduct studies which 
would tell us the best kind and how much exer- 
cise is needed to keep dogs in optimum condi- 
tion. That knowledge based on physiological 
studies should be the basis of any new standard 
in the law relative to dog runs. This is important 
information and we do not now have it. The 
same kind of reasoning should apply to any 
other standard which might be set to control 
handling of animals, whether used in research 
or elsewhere. 
Dr. Harmison : At this time I would like to 
open the floor to the audience for questions and 
discussions. I hope these presentations have 
stimulated thought and created the basis upon 
which directed efforts can be well focused to 
bring this consideration into direct discussion 
by all parties concerned. The floor is now open 
for discussion. 
Dr. Alden E. Stilson, Ohio State University 
Hospital: I would appreciate it if Dr. Schwin- 
daman could discuss Section 2.28, Part D (of 
Rules and Regulations) concerning the inter- 
pretation of the proper use of anesthetics, 
analgesics and tranquilizing drugs. 
Dr. Schwindaman: To get to Dr. Stilson's 
question on Section 2.28, Part D regarding the 
annual report of research facilities certification 
by the attending veterinarian of the research 
facility or by the institutional committee of 
three people, one of whom shall be a Doctor of 
Veterinary Medicine. I feel that perhaps what 
Dr. Stilson is inferring in his question is that 
the attending veterinarian may not have juris- 
diction over all experiments being conducted 
in that institution, yet we're saying that the 
attending veterinarian or the institutional com- 
mittee must certify on his annual report that 
these experiments were conducted with the 
proper use of the three classes of drugs or in 
those cases where drugs were not used, that 
there was a reason for this. It's going to be a 
problem of the institution itself to set up an 
internal procedure by which the responsible 
official for the research facility is going to have 
to give the veterinarian and/or the institutional 
committee the authority to see that these experi- 
ments are conducted under the provisions of 
the Act. If they do not give the attending veter- 
inarian or institutional committee this author- 
ity, then, and this is only as I see it right at 
this point, that institution may very well be in 
violation of the provisions of the Act. 
I think that the problem is going to be edu- 
cating the institutions and the responsible 
officials to the fact that the attending veteri- 
narian or institutional committee is going to 
have this authority in order to make such 
certification. Or the committee or official respon- 
sible for that institution is going to have to 
make that certification himself. 
I don't know if this has answered your ques- 
tion entirely, but it is an internal problem that 
will have to be worked out in many institutions. 
Dr. Stilson: Well, being a little bit tacky 
about this, if you will, in a university there are 
all kinds of colleges. In some areas there are 
personnel who are quite capable but may not be 
veterinarians and some cases where there are 
personnel whose capabilities may be more 
doubtful, although up to this time they have 
been using these types of drugs, properly or 
improperly, we don't know. 
The veterinarian is at this point in time 
being placed in a position of having to certify 
to what they're doing. It appears that he has 
got to start making value judgments on these 
people's capabilities. This puts him in rather a 
difficult position with respect to the university's 
total organization and hierarchy, etc., so I be- 
lieve that we would appreciate something more 
specific than what you outlined. 
Dr. Conner: He would like to have more 
specific guidelines as to exactly how far the 
