1290 
THE USE OF ANIMALS IN MEDICAL RESEARCH AND EXPERIMENTATION 
Dr. Conner : From the point of view of NIH 
and HEW, I wanted to reinforce what Dr. 
Norman said. As I've said so many times, our 
policy is in a state of flux. It now applies only to 
NIH, It's about to be broadened to cover the 
whole Department. Please give us your com- 
ments. Most of you have seen NIH policy. 
Dr. J. MOOR-JANKOWSKI, New York Univer- 
sity School of Medicine: Since you have asked 
for comments, I would like to make a comment 
which was in my mind during this discussion. 
Dr. Gorsky and I represent an institutional 
laboratory which, for the past five years, has 
established a policy as you have discussed here. 
We have a utilization committee, and we have 
had close to 200 scientists working in our 
laboratory. We've never had the utilization com- 
mittee say no because of inhumane treatment 
of an animal, and we were able to help scien- 
tists achieve humane care of the animals. How- 
ever, we have a major problem that puts the 
shoe on the other foot. I can enumerate a num- 
ber of grants in which research was approved 
but the animal care funding was cut. I heard Dr. 
McPherson say that he got $1.5 million to up- 
grade animal care facilities in this country. If 
it wouldn't be so sad, I would say that this is 
laughable. Last year I toured various industrial 
and university facilities in Europe. A one-year- 
old dog bred for the German, or for the Swiss 
industry cost in purchase value of the money, 
between $500 and $800. To be more specific, I 
think we wei'e very impressed by the conference 
which the Heart Institute got together, and we 
are quite a representative group. I think that 
maybe the gentlemen could carry the message 
and I am sure that most people here would ap- 
prove. There are two problems. One is that the 
funding for the animals is not adequate. The 
second problem involves blood grouping re- 
search. I had a site visit by immunologists 
who told me that I can do plasmapheresis on 
four human patients with one nurse in a morn- 
ing, but I must have three technicians to do 
plasmapheresis on a chimpanzee. If site visitors 
come and decide about programs which involve 
the use of animals, there should be somebody in 
the group with sufficient authority who knows 
how the work with the animal is carried out. 
In conclusion, I think that if there is any way 
of bringing to the higher echelons of NIH these 
two recommendations, and if people here agree, 
may they just say so. One is that there should 
be more money appropriated for we will be 
breaking the law if we do not have the funds 
to upgrade our facilities. Secondly, site visitors 
who come to discuss and evaluate programs 
working with animals should have people who 
are knowledgeable in animal experimentation, 
even if it is not in the research program. 
Dr. Conner : I think he's made a very good 
comment. In these projects that you say that 
direct funds were cut for animal maintenance, 
did you inquire from NIH or whatever HEW 
entity it was that made this judgment as to 
why? You're entitled to know why the budgets 
were altered or in the case where the application 
was flatly disapproved, you're entitled to know 
the reason why. 
Dr. Moor-Jankowski : In all cases I've been 
asked if this could be done more cheaply. Addi- 
tional technicians are very expensive in New 
York. 
Dr. Conner : Those technicians' salaries were 
the primary bone of contention then, is that it? 
Dr. Moor-Jankowski : If you want to main- 
tain twenty-four hour a day care for each ani- 
mal, it costs you much more than if you have 
just one technician with the animal. 
Dr. Cass: I want to thank you. Dr. Moor- 
Jankowski, for raising the same question that 
I tried to allude to when I spoke. The animal 
maintenance and support and the setting in 
which you're doing your work is considered 
main research, so when a research grant comes 
to our institutions or to the VA, the investigator 
is told that an animal is a supply item and a per 
diem cost is all that's necessary to cover it. Yet 
the new NIH survey during 1968 felt that the 
per diem charges covered in fact only between 
40 and 60^r of the actual cost of the operation; 
this is all published. 
Ann Free, Washington Star: I write about 
animals often, and I'm a little confused. Dr. 
Schwindaman, with the copy of the Rules and 
Regulations about farm animals. Could you 
clarify this ? In listening to the papers so many 
sheep, bovines and horses are being used. Surely 
they couldn't be exempt from these regulations. 
What about a horse for serum? 
