18S 
FOREST AND STREAM. 
[Aug. 17, ipot. 
Broken and Dusted Targets* 
Providence, R. I., Aug. 10. — Editor Forest and Stream: TRe 
article "Broken and Dusted Targets" in your issue of Aug. 3 
strikes me forcibly as being correct in every particular. A "dusted 
target" has certainly been hit by one or more pellets of shot; 
therefore, if we wish to preserve the equity of the competition it 
should be scored "broken" just the same as we do a target thai 
has a small "chip" knocked from it bj' perhaps one pellet of shot. 
It would seem to me that the time is ripe for a radical change in 
the trapshooting rules in force at the present time. 
Elmer E. Shaner. 
Utica, N. Y., Aug. 11. — According to my experience, the scor- 
ing of dusted targets is all wrong, and I want to tell you why. In 
the first place, if it is a dusted target you want, a modified cylin- 
der choke, No. 11 shot, with a pattern of 4 feet at 30 yards you 
■would have over 90 per cent dusted and not broken. 
Gun right, loaded right and pointed right, over 99 per cent 
^will go up m smoke. , 
What I claim, and a great majority of 90 per cent shots will 
agree with me, is that a target should be stopped, broken apart, at 
ileast a piece larger than any wad. Give the referee no chance 
Ito favor friend or foe. Make his duties so simple that a child 
can referee. _ 
If it is right to score a dusted target, then it is right to score 
.■a pigeon that has been shot at and feathered. 
Who desn-es the credit on a duck pass? — the man that gets the 
feathers, or the man that gets the duck? Same thing — allow a 
(dusted target to score, you are putting a premium on bad work. 
E. D. FULFORD. 
[The. points raised by Mr. Fulford in the foregoing interesting 
'Communication d«serve profound consideration, for he is a gentle- 
man of vast experience in trap shooting matters, and has given 
them profound thought. Nevertheless, we differ radically from 
Mr. Fulford on the matter in question, and would submit, for his 
consideration, and for the consideration of other shooters, the 
iollowing comments on his contention: 
First, we do not thmk that a modified cylinder choke, with No. 
11 shot, at 30 yards, 4-foot pattern, would make over 9<3 per cent 
dusted targets, and we seriously doubt whether it would dust 50 
per cent. A few w-eeks since, we saw some fairly good shots on 
the grounds of the Brooklyn Gun Club experimenting with car- 
tridges loaded with No. 10 shot, using their regular choke bore 
guns, and they could neither break nor dust one in five. If Mr. 
Fulford cared to give his contention in this respect a practical 
test, and report upon it, there would then be more accurate data. 
That a gun right, loaded right and pointed right will perform 
well, no one will dispute, but the capabilities of the gun is not 
the standard by which to measure the skill of a mass of indi- 
viduals. If the standard is made so high as to be beyond the 
skill of the average shooter, or beyond the possibilities of his 
time and means, interest and support will fall away accordingly. 
His contention that a target should be stopped, and that a 
piece larger than a wad should be broken therefrom, and that 
the great majority of 90 per cent shots will agree with him on 
this point, is fallacious. First ef all a single pellet of shot may 
knock off a large piece from the edge of a target, where several 
shot, hitting in precisely the same place, may knock oft' an equal 
■ quantity, or more, yet grind it to dust; thus the dusted target 
may really be the better hit. Indeed, sometimes an entire target 
:is "snuffed out," nothing being left visible to the eye except a 
thin film of finely ground dust; thus there is no "perceptible 
piece," and, under a strict enforcement of the rules, such would 
ibe a lost target. In a horse race, the horse which wins need not 
jhave his whole body ahead of his nearest competitor. He can 
win by a nose, and sometimes by an eyelid. In a rowing contest, 
'the size of the. piece of the board which comes in ahead does 
not determine whether the race is won or not. If one boat comes 
in ahead of the other, be the margin ever so small, it determines 
the winner. In rifle shooting, the merest graze of the bullseye 
is considered a good hit of it. And so with other competitions; 
skill and excellence, not quantity of an object, arc considered. 
Moreover, the target, as an indicator of skill, is not a fixed quan- 
tity. It has different degrees of toughness, according to the tem- 
perature, and presents different surfaces, according to wind and 
flights; thus a shot which might be an excellent break under 
certain degrees of target surface and temperature might be a 
dusted target under certain other varying conditions, and, indeed, 
might be a miss. 
A referee wiio was required to determine whether a piece was 
or was not larger than a gun wad would have the beginning of 
his sorrows. All his troubles theretofore, would appear the merest 
trifles, if not pleasant happenings. Instead of making "his duties 
so simple that a child can referee," it would ta.x his powers to 
a degree greater than they are taxed at present. Would it not 
simplify matters to allow him to rule that the target is hit when 
it is hit, rather than to compare pieces of targets 40 yards away 
in the air with ideal gun wads in his mind? 
Mr. Fulford says above, "If it is right to score a dusted target, 
4hen it is right to score a pigeon that has been shot at and feath- 
.ered." This is rather an unfortunate reference in sufiport of his 
argument, inasmuch as the question of whether the pigeon is hit 
at all cr not does not determine the merit of the shooter's per- 
formance. The question is, can it be gathered within bounds? 
No doubt but what Mr. Fulford, as well as all other experienced 
shooters, have seen pigeons gathered and scored as dead which 
were not hit at all. They tiipped up in the air, were shot at 
while in the air, were missed, yet were gathered, and thereby 
was fulfilled all that was imposed by the rules. 
Sometimes a quarter of a target is blown away in dust. Now, 
what is the reason that it is not as good a break as if the one- 
quarter were knocked oft' in one chunk? 
Mr. Fulford referred to the majority of 90 per cent shooters. 
This is a matter which interests all shooters.] 
WESTERN TRAPS* 
Garden City Gon Clob. 
Watson's Park, Chicago, Aug. 10.— The monthly shoot of the 
Garden City Gun Club had seven contestants m the club event. 
Palmer and O'Brien tied on 15. The scores follow: 
AHbaster 0 1111222222022112 —14 
:paWr 1 221112121111122 -15 
Kust^ .. . 112221002110001100—11 
' n . .. . *22211211211*211 —14 
Knll 0 ..' 202101120212111 —12 
Ymine- i 2102021121110101 —12 
O'Brien, l.'::.".-." ...2122210111221111 -15 
Ten birds, entrance $5: o 
Palmer.... 0202222222— 8 O'Brien 012^11 21^- 8 
Barto 1211021222— 9 Young 0111010112— 7 
Roll 1112111122-10 Quade 2000212022-6 
Chicago Gon Club. 
Chicago, Aug 10.— Herewith find the scores of the Chicago Gun 
Club's shoot of to-dav in the weekly 25-target handicap. 
Steck wins high gun. A. W. Morton wins handicap trophy 
same event. , „ 
Messrs. Edwards, Elias, Colburn, Bitner, and Cop are not mem- 
bers. They belong to the Grand Crossing Club. 
In the monthly trophy, handicap in rise, Bowles won at ISyds. 
The Chicago vs. Grand Crossing team shoot will be held next 
Saturday, on the Chicago grounds. There will be no shooting on 
the grounds on that day. The Grand Crossing members will 
.shoot their trophy shoot on the Chicago grounds on that day: 
Monthly trophy, handicap: 
Kin I? 16 . 111111011011110—12 
Mrs Carson "io 111101101110111—12 
Mrs Howard, \'. OOOUlOlimOlO- 9 
Dr Arnold 16 111100011101101-10 
Bitne? 16 OlOlOniUOOlOl- 9 
K las 16 000110110010100—6 
Colbiirn, ■ i6.V. 010110111111110-11 
R B Mack 18' 111000001010101—7 
Bowles 18 ' : 111111111111011-14 
Dr Morton ' m oiioiiimioiii-12 
A W Morton, IS 111101111011110-12 
Steck 20 100111110111111-11 
Dr Carson -n 010010010100010— 5 
Edwards is" UlOllOllllim-lS 
Borroff 18 110001000110111- 8 
Borroft-: 21.\' . . .• lllOOlOlOlw 
Bowles wins monthly trophy. 
Weekly handicap, 25 targets: 
Broke; Hdcp. Total. 
Kins 1011010101111111010101000—15 8 23 
R B Mack ; -■■ 1111100111111011011111110—20 3 23 
Bowles 1111111111111101111101111—23 5 25 
Dr Carson lOlOlOlOllOlllllllllOim— 19 0 19 
Mrs Carson 1110111111111111100111101—21 5 25 
Steck 1111101110011011111111111—21 0 21 
Mrs Howard 1000110001100110110010101—12 8 20 
Dr Morton 1011111011110101011101101—18 4 22 
A W Morton 0101111101111011110111111—20 5 25 
Dr Arnold 0010111101010100110011110—14 7 21 
Bitner 1111101111111101110111011—21 0 21 
Bowles and A. W. Morton, handicap trophy, tie Steck, high gun. 
Second tie: 
Bowles OmillOll— 8 2 10 
A W Morion ...1111111111—10 2 10 
Third lie: 
Bowles 1010010010 A W Morton 1110111111 
Blue Jeans. 
Garfield Gun Clob. 
Chicago, Aug. 10. — The appended scores were made to-day on 
the occasion of the first trophy shoot of the third series. In the 
series just closed Class A was captured by Hellman on 92 per 
cent., ("lass B by Dorman on 86.4 per cent. Class C bj' our one- 
armed amateur on 57.6 per cent. J. S. Boa won Class A trophy 
to-day on 24, Dr. Meek Class B on 22, W. T. lohnson Class C on 
24. 
The day was pleasant, as far as temperature was concerned, but a 
rather stiff wind blew across the traps, making the shooting some- 
what difficult. 
In spite of the counter attractions of the yacht races and horse 
races, twenty-two members took part in the trophy shoot, and sev- 
eral others came later. 
First trophy shoot, 25 targets: 
FI N Delano llllOOOlllllOlOlOllOlllll— IS 
A D Dorman 1010111010111111110011110—18 
P McGowan 1110111010111111110011111—20 
T A Hagerty 00011111101 101 10000000111— 12 
G Adams 010001 (JU011001010<J0010001— 8 
J D Pollard 1111100111010011111011111—19 
VV P Johnson 1111111111111111111111110—24 
L Thomas 0111010110111111011011111—19 
Dr J A Huff 0110101001011011010010110—13 
Dr Meek 1111111111111111110011011-22 
Leete tOOOlOOOOOOOlOOllOOlllOOl— 8 
W A Jones .111111111110111111110111—22 
J Monigan 0011101001000100000000011— 8 
G W Drinkwater...... 010011111111110100001010—14 
Hodgson : ; 1010011101111111111001001—17 
J C Kissock 1011010110110101110011101—16 
r S Boa lllllllllllllllliniUlOl— 24 
Dr Shaw 1101101111111001111011111—20 
Mrs Dr. Shaw 0111101101111101110111010—18 
T Eaton 1110111111111111111011111—23 
W Eaton .-. . . . 1110111011010111101111000—17 
A Flellman 0111111111111111111110111—23 
T L Smedes 1101011111101110111101011—19 
Sweepstakes: 
Events : 1 
Z Targets: 10 
Delano 4 
Dorman 9 
P McGowan 7 
Hagerty 3 
Adams 4 
Pollard 7 
Johnson 9 
Thomas 8 
Dr Huff 6 
Dr Meek 9 
Leete ,. .; 1 
Jones '. 8 
Monigan 7 
Drinkwater 
Hodgson 6 
Kissick 6 
Boa 10 
2 4 5 6 7 8 
15 5p 15 ID 10 10 
15 9 11 .. 
13 7 
7 9 
11 6 
10 7 
13 8 
33 8 
9 5 
12 10 
13 
14 
14 
7 
10 
4 
10 
10 
6 
13 
Dr Shaw 
Mrs Shaw . . 
T Eaton .... 
E W Eaton. 
Hellman . . . 
Smedes 
10 
9 
10 
13 
4 
15 
9 10 
9 7 
8 7 
10 
6 6 0 9 5 
8 14 10 10 9 
13 10 15 
13 
10 8 13 6 9 10 
12' 
11 
9 
5 15 9 10 
6 .. 8 9 
Dr. J. W. Meek, Sec'y. 
Winnipegf Tournament* 
Winnipeg, Man, — The fifth annual trapshooting tournament, held 
in conjunction with the great fair of the Winnipeg Industrial Ex- 
hibition Association on Aug. 1 and 2, was a great success. On 
the first day, one of the main events was the Western Canada 
championship, w^hich was won by Mr. P. Johnson. Another feature 
of the day's competition was the fine shooting of Mrs. Johnson, of 
Minneapolis, who broke 92 out of 112. The scores made Aug. 1 
are as follows: 
Events: 1 23456789 Shot 
Targets: 15 15 50 15 20 10 15 10 15 at. Broke. 
Dodd 8 12 40 12 12 7 11 2 . . 150 105 
Peterson 9 11 .. 12 14 4 12 8 14 115 84 
1 Iverson 13 *8 .. 10 11 9 10 9 10 115 80 
Warren 12 10 .. 11 14 .. 11 5 .. 90 62 
Lemon 12 13 39 13 15 .. 11 2 12 155 117 
Dr Allen 15 11 .. 13 19 10 13 7 13 115 101 
Carruth 12 12 .. 14 17 4 13 5 13 115 90 
Wood 14 12 .. 13 13 8 12 8 14 115 95 
Hale 12 10 .. 12 11 5 15 8 13 115 86 
A Iverson 14 9 .. 14 16 7 8 5 13 115 86 
Frazer 13 11 .. 12 15 6 75 57 
Manning 11 10 40 80 61 
McClung 8 S 30 16 
Andrews 15 11 37 10 19 10 14 8 15 165 141 
Cox 13 13 .. 12 16 7 11 9 12 115 93 
Cavalier 14 14 .. 14 16 7 8 9 13 115 105 
Bain 13 14 44 14 15 7 13 . . . . 140 120 
Britton 14 13 38 14 11 .. 8 .. .. 130 98 
Spence 7 8 41 . . 13 . . 10 . . . . 115 79 
Hirschv 14 12 .. 15 18 9 12 10 15 115 105 
Seymour 15 13 .. 14 19 9 14 8 13 115 105 
Ilowe 11 12 .. 10 17 5 14 10 13 115 96 
EvandeV " ' 14 10 .. 15 16 9 12 8 13 115 97 
Robbins ■ " " ' 15 13 .. 13 16 9 11 9 14 115 100 
Moore 13 14 .. 12 13 8 6 9 13 115 88 
Simpson 14 13 41 13 16 8 11 8 13 165 137 
Du %ray 13 12 .. 12 16 8 11 8 14 115 94 
Muir.. 13 15 .... 17 6 60 51 
Sorenson 12 12 .. 10 18 9 13 8 15 115 97 
Snrague 13 14 .. 15 15 8 13 9 13 115 100 
Smith 13 11 .. 12 11 7 9 9 13 115 75 
Mrs Johnson 12 11 .. 14 18 7 12 7 11 115 92 
Hanbv 12 8 .. 14 12 6 9 8 13 115 72 
Houldin- ■ ^ 11 11' 34 13 17 9 10 3 .. 150 110 
McKeller 11 10 .. 13 9 7 8 8 12 115 77 
Fairburn 14 9 .. .. 10 4 .. .. .. 60 37 
R Lane 15 10 .. 14 9 .. 10 .. .. 80 58 
Bowling 11 .. 39 65 50 
P Johnson 12 . . 44 65 o6 
McTavish 13 .. 39 65 52 
Scott 12 .. 39 65 51 
Daly.:. 11 ..31 11 80 53 
Patterson 13 . . 38 65 51 
Atkinson 14 .. 39 .. .. 5 75 57 
Wellband 10 13 42 11 15 115 91 
Stewart 10 7 .. .. 30 17 
Cochrane 9 .. .. 5 .. ,. 5 .- .. 4o 19 
Carruthers 11 11 42 14 13 .. 13 10 13 155 129 
Merrill 7 .... 11 30 18 
Miller 9 ■ • 34 12 ... . 80 55 
D R Warren ^ 12 .. 10 80 29 
Harper 9 12 30 21 
Brydges 3 15 a 
T)\ck 6 » lo o 
Liffhtcao 12 . . 43 15 . . 7 12 8 12 140 120 
Campbell 13 1.1 .. 12 19 ...... .. 65 55 
Dr Smith' 11 8 .. 12 10 .. 8 .. 9 95 58 
Dr Fleming 10 10 . . 9 . . . . 9 8 12 85 58 
C Andrews^ 11 .. 9 11 7 11 75 49 
Hamilton 6 .. .. 6 ...... .. 35 12 
Mrs Mclnnis 3 6 . . 6 7 . . 60 22 
Bell .. 38 11 .... 11 9 .. 90 69 
F T Cadham 42 . . 14 65 56 
Tones 36 50 36 
ilclnnis 12 12 .. 10 .. 11 65 45 
Putman 11 13 .. 14 .. 11 65 49 
Parker 10 15 10 
Smith 35 50 35 
McKay 35 12 15 8 11 ... . HO 81 
Baldwin .. 3S .. 6 12 .. 13 90 69 
Stapleton 13. .. 15 11 
Armitage iO 14 .. 7 4 .. 60 35 
Boling 19 .. U 7 11 60 48 
Elliott 14 .. S .. .. 35 22 
Spiirgeon 6 9 . . 35 15 
H Simpson 12 . . . . 15 12 
The weather was exceedingly pleasant. The high average re- 
sulted in a tie between Mr. Hirschy, of Minneapolis, and Mr. 
Seymour, of Grand Forks. 
The international championshij) cup was won by C. E. Robbins, 
of Fargo, with a score of 46 out of a possible 50. G. Evander, of 
VVlieaton, Minn., made the same excellent score, only missing 4 
birds. In the shooting off of the tie the greatest interest was 
evinced, and excitement was high. .Hoth men put up a battle royal, 
but Robbins won out. 
The Ogilvie doubles were won by Baldwin, of Winnipeg, with a : 
score of 21 out of a possible 24. Baldwin is a veteran shot and one 
of the best in the West. ' 
The international flags were again won by an American team, 
and for another year the tw-o beautiful silk emblems will repose 
within the domains of Uncle Sam. The ensigns were won by a 
majority of IS birds. 
The scores in the nine regular events are as follows' 
Events: 123456789 
Targets: 15 15 50 24 15 15 20 15 20 
Baldwin 12 11 43 21 10 13 18 10 .. 
Campbell 13 0 .. .. 7 11 13 9 .. 
Parker 10 8 28 . . 12 
Boeing 10 13 36 .. 10 
I Iverson 11 9 32 16 10 7 
Dr Allen 13 10 45 10 8 10 19 14 15 
Carruth 12 14 42 18 14 14 17 14 14 
Peterson 7 9 41 13 11 9 14 12 11 
Hale 12 14 41 18 11 13 15 12 11 
Anderson 13 8 37 15 10 .. 16 8 -9 
Britton 12 8 36 .. 15 10 9 12 8 
Carruth 12 14 42 18 14 14 17 14 14 
Bain 11 11 36 .. 13 12 46 14 13 
Carruthers 11 13 39 16 13 12 .. 10 .. 
Cox 18 12 .. 10 14 11 17 8 .. 
Sprague 15 11 44 18 12 11 18 13 13 
Smith 11 11 34 19 11 13 15 9 10 
Mrs Johnson 9 10 .. 19 12 11 16 9 
ITanby 14 6 27 17 9 4 8 5 .. 
McKeller 11 10 3:5 16 7 10 14 10 .. 
Hirschy 11 15 .. 20 11 14 19 12 15 
Seymour 12 13 43 18 14 12 20 12 14 
Rowe -. 13 13 44 19 10 12 17 12 15 
G Evander 9 14 46 19 14 14 19 11 14 
Robbins 12 14 46 20 15 10 18 12 12 
Moore 11 11 38 16 
Simpson 13 14 43 30 15 12 16 12 .. 
Du Brav 12 10 .. 16 11 12 14 9 .. 
Cavalier 14 13 41 18 12 12 20 13 12 
Sorenson 11 12 40 15 12 12 14 8 33 
Stanley 10 10 .. .. ' 
Dr Fleming 11 6 .• .. 
Fairbairn 12 10 
Patterson 9 11 
Wellband 12 14 .. 11 14 12 16 11 12 
Todd n 11 .. 15 
Stewart 4 
Harper 10 5 
Harwood 11 11 
Houlding 9 
Wood 13 ., 18 .. 9 .. 9 .. 
Spence 10 
Kirkby ., 8 8 
G Andrews ii ;. 11 15 11 ., 
Dr Bell 12 
J Cadham 15 13 9 12 12 13 
Mrs Mclnnis 8 5 
Robbie 10 11 16 11 13 
Spurgeon 6 8 14 . . 
Rodman 11 6 16 11 14 
Atkinson 14 .. .. 13 .. 
Lightcap 10 18 10 .. 
James 5 9 1 
Armitage 14 7 10 
A Slipper was tendered the guests, the shooters from the States, 
on the evening of Aug. 2, in which the utmost good-comradeship 
prevailed. 
A Challengfe* 
A Challenge to Any Member of Any Shooting Clob ini 
New Hampshire. 
DuNBARTON, N. H., Aug. 10.— Some twelve to twenty years ago, I 
think I could claim to be as good a trap shot as resided in the old 
Granite State. To-day, and for some years, 1 have been practically 
out of trap shooting, with the exception of shooting occasionally! 
on some local grounds. I realize that with advancing years I do 
not retain my former skill with the shotgun, especially in quick-; 
ness and precision. I regret to admit the above, but nevertheless 
it is a fact. The old spirit, however, still lingers, and I am fully' 
aware that if my challenge is not accepted it may be a good thing 
for me. 
As to my challenge, I will shoot the following match with any, 
man who has been a legal resident of the State for six months and: 
a member of any organized shooting club for three months previous 
to date. One hundred bluerock targets, thrown under Americani 
rules, from magautrap; match to be shot on grounds of Concord 
Gun Club, Concord, N. H. Said match to be for from $50 to $100' 
a side. 
Whosoever first accepts the above will be the man I am after. I 
will require him to cover my deposit of 25 per cent, of the amount, 
to be put up in the hands of Secretary Sanborn, of the Concord, 
Gun Club. Balance of stake to be put up in some manner on 
morning of day of match. I will ask for not less than ten days' 
notice of date my opponent may name. 
in case I should win the above match, I will pledge myself to' 
shoot a similar return match within a reasonable time on the home 
grounds of my opponent, should he so desire. The above means 
pay or play. C. M. Stark. 
Norwalfc vs. Fremont. 
NoRWALK, O., Aug. 10. — Herewith find scores of match at blue- 
rocks, between the Maple City Gun Club and the Fremont Gun. 
Club, twelve men on a side, shot at Fremont the 8th inst. It 
resulted in victory for Norwalk by the score of 260 to 239. 
The weather was all that could be desired, and nothing marred 
the pleasure of the occasion. 
The Norwalkians say they cannot find words to express their ad-' 
miration of the manner in which they were treated by their op- 
ponents. They were provided with a lunch on the grounds, and) 
after the shoot a fine supper was spread for them, and in every, 
way their stay in Fremont was made exceedingly pleasant. 
Norwalk. 
Valentine ,. .0111111111111111101111111—23 
Gallup llllllllllllllOllOlOlilU— 22 
Hess immoimiiiiooiiiiiio— 21 
Easton 0111111100111111111111111—22 
Frank 1101111111011101111101011-20 
Vanderpool 1110011111111111111111111—23 
Bascom •. . . 1111110111111111111111111- 2 i 
Call 1110111111111101110111111— i:2 
Packard 0111111111111111111010011—21 
Burton 1111111111011101111110111—22 
Reiley 1110110011111111110111111—21 
Washburn 1101110101011111101101111— 19— 261^ 
Fremont. 
San ford 1101101111110111111101101—20 
Guthrie 1111011101111101111011011—20 
Conrad .• 1111111111111111111111111—25 
Christy 101010*j011101101101111110— 16 
Stevenson 0101111110101101111101010—17 
Hock 0001111110111111111111101—20 
Inman 0110111111011101110111011—19 
Walters llimUlllllllOlll 111101— 23 
Smith 0001111111111111111011111—20 
Day 1110010101111101011111111—19 
Eisenhaur ..0101111111101101111011111—20 
Witt 1101110111010110111111111— 20— 2* 
The high score for Fremont was made by Conrad, 25; and th' 
high score for Norwalk by Bascom, 24. 
The return shoot will occur in Norwalk on Monday, Sept. li 
Labor Day. Geo. F. Titus. 
