Jan. 18, 1902.] 
* TOBEST AND STREAM. 
from Grindstone, Me., and were consigned to Hamilton's; 
grocery, where the lovers of venison could buy it to their 
heart's content.'' 
"A license fes to hunt will not keep one single desir- 
able visitor away from Maine. This is my deliberate 
judgment, formed after years of study of the situation. 
"I have talked with a good many — I have corresponded 
with a good many who have come to Maine to hunt, and 
have yet to find any one who > objects to it, when 
the amount received is used exclusively to protect game. 
"Great opportunities are before us. The country at 
large looks to Maine to furnish the hunting ground of 
the nation. 
"They are willing to pay well for the privilege. In 
these days of rapid transit those having even moderate 
means and limited time have learned that they can leave 
the dust and toil of distant t cities behind them of a 
morning or an evening, and in twelve, twenty-four or 
thirty-six hours, breathe the sweet breath of the piney 
woods of Maine about them, or look out upon old ocean 
from her rock-bound coast, and looking up through for- 
est trees or ocean mist devoutlv thank God thev are 
here." 
Hon, Charles E, Oak. 
Mr. Oak began, by stating that having held the two- 
ofrkes of Fish and Game Commissioner and Land Agent 
and Forestry Commissioner, he should discuss the ques- 
tion from the point of view of both the sportsman and the 
land owner. Continuing, he said : 
"First, then, as a sportsman, allow me to repeat that 
I'm strongly opposed to a license law such as proposed, 
and will attempt to answer a few of the arguments urged 
in its favor, and, at the same time, call your attention to 
a few facts carefully omitted from the argument* of 
those not agreeing with me. 
"For the past six years I've known something of the 
trials, troubles and tribulations of a fish and game com- 
missioner, and it is far from my desire to do other than 
assist them in every possible way. 
"Knowing the chairman as well as I do — it sometimes 
seeming almost as well as he knows himself — I have no 
hesitation in vouching for his honesty and earnestness of 
purpose in trying to do everything possible for the cause 
in which he is engaged; but will submit that it is beyond 
what we may expect from anything human if, with so 
many problems involved as are embraced in this depart- 
ment, some mistakes are not made — no matter how con- 
scientiously a man may work. 
"In this particular matter, I fear that his zeal for the 
welfare of his department has led him to devote a large 
amount of energy toward bringing about results which, 
are likely to react, and later prove very troublesome. 
"This idea of licensing sportsmen is not new. but. on 
the other hand, has been 'threshed out' at at least three: 
of the annual meetings of this Association. Each time 
it has been voted down quite unanimously, and it seems 
as though the partisans of the cause ought to be willing to 
abide by the voice of the majority; yet they have come 
back each year with some new argument to add to the old 
story, and this year have succeeded in converting a 
sufficient number of members by constantly arguing on 
one side of the story, so that I fear for the result. Pos- 
sibly some of you may have heard them state some real or 
fancied objection, but if so, I've failed to hear it. 
"I submit, however, that the methods of taking but: 
one side is not the proper course to pursue in this case, 
because the aims, objects and ambitions of this Associa- 
tion are, to develop the fish and game interests of the 
State, to be sure, but to do so in such a way as shall 
redound to the benefit of all, and not jeopardize any prop- 
erty or business interests. 
"When the people advocating this or any other scheme- 
are willing to present all the evidence, either for or 
against any proposed interests, and are willing to sub- 
mit the matter to a majority vote of this organization, we 
can expect to arrive at much more correct results and 
command much greater influence. 
"Among other things, they tell us in the present in- 
stance, that 513 people came from Ohio and Indiana the- 
past year, hired as few guides as possible without violat- 
ing the law, brought their own provisions as well as other 
needful articles with them, and left but a very small 
amount of money within our borders proportionate to the 
large amount of game they took home with them. They 
tell us that if we had charged them a license fee of $iO' 
each, we would have had $5,000 with which to have em- 
ployed at least five more wardens the past year. They 
migth almost as well have told us that if we had charged 
them $100 each, we would have had $50,000 with which 
to have employed fifty more wardens the past year. Peo- 
ple practicing the economy that these people have are 
not the ones who have many ten-dollar bills to throw 
away. Evidently, the cost was carefully considered be- 
fore they started, and if the proposed license law had 
been in force this season, probably the most of them 
would have stayed at home or gone elsewhere. This 
would have grieved none of us, of course, as they are 
of no benefit to us; and if any law can be devised that 
will reach such a class of sportsman, as doubtless there 
can be, and not affect the rest, I will heartily join with 
any of you in urging its enactment. I am not arguing for 
this class, please understand; but if we admit the very 
remarkable statement that 250,000 people came to Maine 
for an outing the past season, and are asked to pass a 
law that will punish 249,500 of them for the sake of 
reaching the 500 _ from the West, surely we should all 
hesitate before doing anything so rash. 
"As a remedy for such evils, I would suggest that if 
our present law 'lacks teeth' wherein the non-resident 
must conform to certain regulations, why not change it 
sufficiently to accomplish the desired result without 
radically changing the whole system of laws? 
"We are told that the department needs more money, as 
it is impossible to do satisfactory work with so limited 
means. 
"Right here, gentlemen, is where you will find the 
meat in the cocoanut. They claim the crying need is 
more money, and, regarding it as a 'cure for all evils," 
propose to obtain it by means of the strong arm of the 
law, without fully considering whether right or wrong 
or how it will affect other interests. 
"Individually we are not allowed to assume the role of 
a highwayman, but must give value received.. Should a 
great State be expected tq do less? ftjf a few' rare" in- 
stances, sportsmen.,would-obtain tronhy "values warranting 
ibhe payment of a license, but I will submit that where 
' one succeeds to that extent, a thousand have a bank ac- 
< count materially reduced. 
"The reasons influencing sportsmen to come here are 
the health and pleasure resulting and not mercenary 
gain. Health results from drinking pure water and 
[breathing pure air, which are God-given, and pleasure as 
;a natural consequence. Fish and game simply furnish 
tthc diversion and the rest follows. We, as a State, are 
ssiraply thowing out a bait of $25,000 per year to furnish 
1 the nomitfaUattraclion. 
"The terfde^Oo't is attracted in consequence of the halo 
. surrounding it — partly real and partly imaginary — coWies 
.among and brushes against us, and, if treated rightly 
stand in a suave manner, discovers on his return home 
;that he has left considerable dross in consequence of 
'rising to the fly.' This is what we are fishing for and 
: should feel very well satisfied with the result. 
"I will frankly admit that we could 'catch more fish' 
• or 'be surer of a rise' if we could make the bait more 
. attractive— in other words, if we had ifsore money for the 
1 department, because my experience lias demonstrated the 
1 necessity for more means. 
"If we must have it, let us tafee honest means to ob- 
itain it, and not throttle the innocent sportsman and 
'order him to 'stand and "deliver.' Allow me to suggest 
; a course that is legitimate. Let those so zealous for the 
i proposed law, furnish #*e proofs of their assertion that 
: $15,000,000 is spent heme annually by tourists and sports- 
7 men, and the same Legislature that has heretofore ap- 
propriated $25,000 & year for the department, on the 
: strength of the stetement, accompanied by proofs, that 
[four to five million dollars are spent here annually, wiHl 
appropriate double or triple that 'amount. 
"The men composing our legislative bodies arc itti- 
•clined to be reasonable and fair in all matters, and suffi- 
>ciently wise to realize that a $75,000 annual expense to 
1 maintain aa $15,000,000 annual income is a mere bagatelle. 
"Allow me to repeat: Furnish the necessary statistics 
ito ssubstwitiate the above statement, and means for the 
'department are assured by State appropriations. But we 
;are ttoTd that a careful study of the temper of our legis- 
ilativelbody demonstrates the fact that no wiore help in the 
way 1 of larger appropriations can be expected. Others 
lhave made an equally c&reifoil study, 'and, as a result, I 
wenture this assertion, viz,, that tine mass of the people 
(consider that $25,000, together with fees collected, taking 
iinto consideration the numerous demands upon the State 
1 treasury, should be sufficient to Tun the department satis- 
ifactorily; and the minute a new law, like the one pro- 
posed, is enacted, estimated to yield an income of $15,000 
.-annually — from that moment you may safely reckon that 
your .annual appropriation will be decreased by a like 
.amount, -and .you wiM lhave no more means to work with 
if han ibafore. 
"With 1 those <oi you who have carefully observed the 
^prevailing -serttirrRent at Augusta each legislative season, 
llineed not.Brgitie this point, for your own good sense will 
rtell you it is true. 
"The talk that this is about the only State or Province 
lfihat 'has no such license law simply furnishes an addi- 
tional argument for continuing the system we have been 
[following for the past few years; because it is generally 
admitted on all sides that the Maine Department of Fish 
rand 'Game is in the best condition and managed the best 
'iff 'that of any State or Province in America. 
"This is a strong assertion, I am well aware; but, to 
corroborate it, I refer you to my former colleague, Mr. 
Stanley, who was with me on one occasion, at least, at 
;a meeting of the North American Fish and Game Asso- 
ciation at Montreal. At both of the meetings which I 
lhave attended, the last having representatives from at 
Ueast ten States, and nearly all the Provinces in Canada, 
it was the unanimous sentiment that they could all be 
(benefitted by copying largely from our code of laws and 
.system of enforcement. 
"Several representatives of States and Provinces frankly 
stateS rtJhart i&my drought their system off licensing was 
wrong, tnriless enacted for a special purpose like that in 
the Stare 'df Michigan. 
'"Titoe (commissioner from that State told me personally 
thatrfhe license law in his State worked admirably for the 
■purpose for which it was intended, which was this: 
Their game, on account of lax laws, much poaching, 
and numerous hunters, had become largely depleted, 
and they wanted to give it a chance to increase. Various 
'expedients were suggested, such as absolute close time, 
a very short open time, and finally a license law, which 
was 'enacted. 
"As a result, the year following this enactment, they 
had less than one-quarter the number of sportsmen they 
Ibrad averaged the several years previous. This, he argued, 
would give the game a chance to increase, and after a 
ffew years it is the intention to abolish the law whenever 
'the game becomes sufficiently abundant to warrant it. 
'Their reason for adopting this course, instead of an ab- 
solute close time, was that the revenues derived from the 
licenses would make the department self supporting dur- 
ing the period in which the residents of the State re- 
ceived but comparatively little benefit from the money 
Jeft by sportsmen. 
"Still another very serious objection is this. In my 
judgment, it would lead to rank dishonesty and extra ex- 
pense, which would soon bring the department into grave 
disrepute. If you doubt it, allow me to call your atten- 
tion to the license regarding September hunting. It was 
openly charged and undoubtedly true that parties would 
secure a sjngle license and then would proceed to shoot 
as many deer as they saw fit, changing the tag from one 
to the other as the case required. It also led to numerous 
individuals taking the chance of shooting in September 
without a license, through the advice of citizens who 
said that there was not sufficient supervision to make the 
chance of their being caught very great. In arranging 
the system to prevent such evils, we devoted considerable 
time and thought, as well as expense, but were unable 
to prevent all violations, although comparatively few 
licenses were_ sold' and the agents not numerous. 
"With a license law such as proposed, many agents 
must be appointed, each of whom will be m?>re or less 
susceptible to mercenary influence, all of whom must be 
paid; and without a much larger warden force to look 
after this branch of the business alone, the law will be 
of no practical benefit; and possibly fjn actua} expense. 
1 '^Similar "Officers -err agents in districts which I might 
mame, 'have (frequently been 'greased' — a term which 1 
'fhirl-k you will (comprehend; and every act of this kind 
reflects on the department, no matter if the character of 
the wromissidtoers is generally considered above re- 
proadh. To illustrate, please recall the reputation of the 
(fiepaiftmCrit at the time Mr. Stairwell was a member of 
ihe-'-to6ai»€, No ! more honorable men than he and Mr. 
•Stanley could Ibe 'found on earth, and yet, owing to the 
-system then in vogue, and also to the character of tfoe 
'wirifftens then iin '.the service, the whole department Was 
ooTisidered 'rotten' hy a large majority of the visitinfe 
puMic. Fortunately, that sentiment has co'mpletely 
(dhanged. The commissioners — since I left the hoard— 
.-are credited .wtttih working earnestly and honestly ; fdr the 
Ibest interests "©if the State, rather than for personal -'glory, 
•and I earnestly hope their zeal will not lead 'them info 
grave errors, 
"If I wane asked to give advice as'tp'the trying 'heeds 
of the "department 'whih reference to changes in laWs, I 
should .mswer, 'There are none.'' My best advice would 
be, 1G® -slow about 'making any ' radical changes in any 
law-' 
"Araother idea II A^h'to 1 bring to your attention is' this; 
It wwuld very ^sho?f3y 'Create a fierce an tagoh ism ' between 
ittihe mild land 'owners and the fish and game intent's— 
<a<a©ntikion-vefy f 'Much to be deplored. This would 'arise 
liiao 'consequence 'of an increased danger' Vo T6rest property 
ilby'reason' of 1 te-est 1 fires. 
''Having 'ted some little exp^Henpe in paying : fdr 
■liicenses for Ashing and hufltfafg, and having talked the 
^matter owe* with 'very numerous sportsmen, I find tijiite 
?a lUrtiversall disposition on trie part of such people tt> 'fry 
■and get uikeir 'money's worth. Being 'obliged 'to pay 
' money Where they think they ought not to, ti unable to 
secure trophies of the chase such as desired, they are 
more ra>r less incliaed to destroy a certain amount of prop- 
erty equal, at least, to the amoutft of money they have 
leffit. Do ndt think that this 'is a fanciful idea, because 
I Bmow wheiieof I speak, as \ have heard this sentiment 
(expressed % the ^people "ftiemselves who have been ob- 
liged 'to part with'their money in this way. 
'"We-icre told^hat'tike visitors in the State are perfectly 
willing- to ibave such a law enacted — that they are glad 
to (oasnttrfbute to t r he fund for hiring wardens : to enforce 
otrr tews. 
"P© 'not ibc deceived by this statment. 1 Ge'flflehien, 'l 
lhawe Ihad' ^cme little experience, you ' will allow the r tp 
say., aanH. \with the single exception of the case referred 
to© f'by Mir.. Carleton at Mt. Desert, T ' have yet to hear 
■«M if he fiwst- individual instance where' even one C^erit has 
ilbean caontributed voluntarily '-by - the "visiting : public 'to 
'(OurrHsm and game fund, 'it rs ''mOortshine,' geritleitteh- s 
(ifcsom that these people ate "gOifi'g' to'Coihe here and vol- 
mrtterily contribute $i©"each, or ' more,,' for the benefit of 
fififs fund; as otherwise we should l haVe 'hkd 'abundarit e^i- 
<tfJsnee in a few cases, ;gt least. 
'"The real facts arte -simply these: A'feV/ of our visiting 
ssportsmen are anxiiaus to 'have 'a 'license law such as pro- 
■posed. The most -of them-favotitig the idea/wish to hWk 
the license fee very high and explain their reasons 'there- 
ffor in this unasmer: Ttey -gay that 'With (jhelr means, 
they can easily afford to pay quite liberally, but that the 
large mass ot tourists 'who cpihe r to Mame have not such 
finandrall ability:; ^ootisequetitly, it will create a large 
game preserve (for the 11 benefit "6-f a moneyed aristocracy 
and compel itee clerks, 'trades-men, and others of HrhiteH 
means to So "without-'suelran outing or go' elsewhere. 
■"If s ^he wrasses atfd'ttdt'the classes' to'.'whdmVe should 
cater, if w Wish 'to 'Bo 'the greatest good, because, while 
im«Evidn3a% .'they 1 Hp >not spend as ' much 'money, colject- 
iively they-spend'ttiuch more and the benefits reach a much 
fta-^ger murriber < Of people. 
'"Of course, >we''ean understand how a few of our mem- 
bers, like ;< he proprietors 6f fashionable resorts, have re^ 
eertfly been converted oh Account of the confession ' of 
some of {heir patrons ' that "there is a strong unde.rc\ki:reri<- 
;among if liis ''class ( - that a high license fee would teitti to 
create -a select 'aristocracy and bar the masses of ''tourists. 
'Infifvidually, 'proprietors of such resorts would be 
IbeneSttad and it.ifes but natural that they Should become 
itmibaeed -wi{h?the ideas prevailing ahiong their guests and 
iunrffmsciously%ecOme unmindfurof ' other interests than 
liiheir own. 
''We are felted 'to the fact iMt the Provinces of Canada 
(exact a 'fse ifor<hUhting x : bnd 'that they still flourish. This 
us true, 'gentlemen, ; artd 'it is also true that they exact 
:a ifee Cor fishin ; g as Well, and what is the result? The 
statement is'maite, "fend I fully believe it, that more peoplfe 
loome to 'the Alette State of Maine to fish than go to all 
itlhe Provinces ktff Canada combined, notwithstanding ^the 
Sact that :t!he natural conditions in the various 'ProvitiCes 
;ane fully <equal to those here. 
/"We ifl know, whether we admit it Or not, that, a 
Ifioense fee such as proposed would 'bar very many jJeop'le 
iSroim coming here. It has become almost a disease ttf 
lhaw an annual outing, either for fishing or hunting. 
Commencing as a mild fever, it developed into a contagion 
that we have been hoping was chronic; W the passing 
of obnoxious laws is likely to destroy *his microbe and 
the patient return home Ciired— heVer to return. 
"Many more reasons, Often 'rehearsed, could be offered 
an opposition to the proposed "law. I will leave them un- 
repealed, because I wis'h to offer a few ideas in favor of 
the scheme. 
'1 feel it rs ahotft time for us to consider more care- 
fully the forestry problem and the obligations we are 
under to the lindividual land owners, when considering 
any proposed change in our game laws; therefore as 
representing certain small wild land interests, and regard- 
less of ftsh and game interests, I'm very strongly inclined,' 
•^wtth a proviso which I will mention later— to work iot 
«t long and diligently. ' \ [ 
~As before stated, the wild lands furnish the grand cap- 
ital upon which you flourish. Without the forests,' this 
State would be a very poor one in which to live 1 . The 
blasting storms of winter, with uncontrollable freshets 
spring and fall, accompanied by the parching droughts- of 
summer, would ruin almost every kind of business of 
whatever name or nature that at present furnishes our 
people with nieans of 'a livelihood. 
"The Legislature meets season after season to pass 
laws, but- instead of studying and legislating how best to 
Pft^Y* ^ forest area which stands as a safeguard to 
all business, they ponder and scheme how they can cos 1 
