Oct. II, 1902.] 
FOREST AND STREAM 
299 
The Kenton, O., Gun Club for it» tournament of Oct. 31 and 22 
bes a programme of twelve tarRet events, alike eacb day, nine at 
16 targets, two at 20 targets, and one at 25 targets, ?25 being added 
to the latter on the first day, and $40 on the second day for those 
who have shot throtigh the day's programme, Total, 200 targets; 
$20 entrance. All known 90 per cent, men barred from purses, but 
may shoot for a high average prize of $10. Lunch served on 
grounds. Targets. 2 cents. Ammunition and guns shipped to 
K P. Johnson will be delivered on the grounds free of charge. 
Shooting commences at 9 o'clock. Magautrap and expert traps. 
The secretary is Mr. A. G. Merriman. 
William A. Stuart, of Brooklyn. L. I., died m the Hotel St, 
George, in that citv, on Sept. 30, in the sixty-fifth year of his 
age. Although an invalid many years, his death was unexpected, lor 
he had contemplated moving soon into a new home, which he had 
purchased in Flatbush, a section of Brooklyn. He was a member 
of the old Fountain Gun Club, and the New Utrecht Gun Club, 
in the shoots of which he actively participated, particularly those 
which were held at Interstate Park. He was of a quiet, amiable 
disposition, and was highly esteemed by a host of friends, who 
will profoundly mourn his loss. 
•I 
The tournament of the North Side Gun Club, of Allegheny, Pa., 
Oct. 1 and 2 had high guns as follows: First day: Watson, of 
Sewickly, with 162 out of 17.5; second, Fleming, of Pittsburg, with 
1.56; Atkinson and Shaner, of New Castle, third and fourth re- 
spectively, with 155 and 152. On the second day Mr. L. B. Fleming 
was high with 157 out of 175; Kelsey, second, with 155; Atkinson, 
third, with 152; Deniker. fourth, with 150. 
On Sept. 29, the first day of the Interstate Association's tourna- 
ment, given for the Lewistown, 111,, Gun Club, Mr. Tom Marshall 
was high with 166 out of 180; Mr. Guy Burnside was second with 
164; third. Messrs. J. L. Head and A. C. Connor tied on 163. On 
the second day Mr. Connor was first with 162; Mr. B. Lewis second 
with 158; Mr. E. B. Coe third with 149. 
H 
Mr. T. S. Wright informs us that he will give a live-bird shoot 
at the Hudson Driving Park, N. J., at a date to be announced later. 
He will endeavor to hold it in the latter part of this month. He 
states that the birds will be first class, and that no irregular shoot- 
ing will be allowed. Lunch can be obtained on the grounds. The 
programme will be arranged on popular lines, and will be pub- 
lished in the near future. 
The daily press recounts the death of Maj. E. P. McKissick, of 
Asheville, K. C, which occurred suddenly at Norfolk, Va., Sept. 
28. lie was specially known in the trapshooting world in connec- 
tion with several pleasant trapshooting tournaments given by him 
at Asheville, sometimes jointly with Col. J. T. Anthony, of 
Charleston, N. C. 
In a conversation last week, Mr. S. M. Van Allen, of Jamaica, 
L. I., informed us that he would start for Atlanta, Ga., Oct. 5, on 
a business trip. He will do more or less shooting while in that 
section, and as he is one of the most skillful shots, he will give a 
good account of himself, whether in competition at targets or live 
birds. 
The first shoot of the Crescent Athletic Club's season, 1902-3, 
took place on the club grounds at Bay Ridge, L. I., last Saturday, 
and was honored with a good attendance, notwithstanding that the 
weather was cloudy and betimes rainy. Dr. J. J. Keyes established 
the first claim on die October cup with a score of 48. 
Mr. K. T. Gowan, secretary of the Raleigh, N. C, Gun Club, 
writes us as follows: "I must have made a mistake in writing you 
about our shoot on Oct. 29 and 30. It should have been $100 added 
each day, which makes considerable difference. It will attract 
more shooters." 
Mrs. Frank E. Butler (Aimie Oakley) started recently on a 
theatrical tour in the West. She has the leading part in a play, 
the chief incident of which is some skillful shooting, which saves 
the day. We heartily wish her success. 
Mr. L. B. Fleming, of Pittsburg, retained possession of the 
bronze medal, emblematic of the championship of Western Penn- 
.sylvania, defeating the challenger, Mr. W. L. Harper, by a score 
of 90 to 82. 
In the slioot of the South Side Gun Club, of Newark. N. J^ 
on Saturday o£ last week, Mr. I. Terrill won in the Troisdorf 
trophy event. 
Bernard Waters. 
Haadicaps. 
The following, from Mr. II. D. Kirkover, of Fredonia, N. Y., 
is of general interest, as it concerns the withdrawal of a fine 
amateur from general shooting competitions, and contains a 
manly expression of conviction. He writes us as follows: 
"You ask if the report of my withdrawal from competing in 
trapshooting is true. It is, and it isn't. I shall continue to shoot 
pigeons at the clubs in the vicinity of New York and Phila- 
delphia, and possibly in Canada, and may occasionally attend a 
large target tournament where all stand at 16yds., but as far as 
handicap target tournaments are concerned, I will get my pleas- 
ure reading the reports in the sporting press. It would be all 
O. K., if there was a governing body to control trapshooting and 
the handicapping of contestants, but where this is all left to the 
local clubs, why, more or less 'injustice' is liable to creep in 
"Last week Field and Fancy published a photo of Mr. Ed Rike, 
and with it a short biographical sketch. He gives his reasons for 
disliking the present system of handicaps and division of moneys, 
and I heartily agree with him, only personally would like all 
moneys in all trapshooting events to go to the high guns. There 
would be plenty of shooters who would enter, and if the masses 
are to be catered to, let the shooters be divided into classes. 
"The only persons deriving remuneration from trapshooting are 
the manufacturers of guns and ammunition. I don't blame them 
for wanting large fields in the tournaments, but personally I pre- 
fer quality to quantity. 
"I will take a chance with any field, and when it is demonstrated 
to me that I am not eligible or am a 'has been,' I will step 
down and out, and watch the other boys. 
"When I was serving my apprenticeship at the trapshooting 
game every man had to put up his money and take a chance even 
up with the best of them. At pigeons it was high guns, and at 
targets class shooting, all at 16yds, For a long time the chance 
was all I was able to take, but as time rolled by I became pro- 
ficient enough to break a straight occasionally, but by that time 
the moneys were cut up so that the best I received was less than 
the amount the fellow drew down who dropped in the fourth or 
fifth hole. I know from experience that the only shooters that are 
money winners the year round are the paid representatives, and 
they earn all they receive, and more, too. 
"Now the sweepstake feature of target tournaments, as con- 
ducted to-day, is a farce, and I am in favor of abolishing it 
altogether, and m its place substituting trophy or prize events, 
high guns to win. 
"In conclusion would like to ask if there is a game to-day in 
which the novice is given a better chance than the seasoned con- 
sistent performer, or where hard-earned skill is obliged to give 
way to the crude, uncertain beginner. 
"This will undoubtedly convey to you my opinion of target- 
shooting and my reason for practically withdrawing from same." 
Qnclnnatt Gun Clab. 
CiNCiNN.ATi, O., Oct. 4- — In the sixth contest for the Troisdorf 
medals, Gambell, Faran and Osterfeld tied in Class A. Class B 
medals were won by Barker. The contestants, distance handicaps 
and scores were as follows: Gambell (19) 44, Faran (18) 44, Oster- 
feld (19) 44, Baker (17) 44, Dreihs (16) 43, Herman (16) 43, Mc- 
Bvnard (18) 41, McB. (16) 40, Capt. (17) 40, Coleman (20) 39, Van 
Ness (19) 39, Randall (IS) 38, Ahlers (21) 37, Block (18) 37, Jay 
Bee (17) 37, Medico (21) 36, Corrj- (17) 34. Ward (16) 34 Ackley 
a6) 34, Steinrrian (18) 34. See (20) 33, Tack (16) 33, Boeb (14) 30, 
Miles (17) 29, J. Steinman (18) 27, Nye (20) 26, Jones (19) 24, 
Schneider ( 17) 17. 
Chambet Sizes for all Bores* 
The Gunmakers' Association has added to the good work it has 
done in the past in connection with the standardization of car- 
tridge and chamber sizes by issuing a series of dimensions for the 
bores not previously dealt with. We give in tabulated form the 
figures which are novv put forward and issued for general circula- 
tion among the gun trade. It will be noticed that the chamber 
sizes for 12, 16, and 20 bores have been altered by comparison with 
what were previously issued, the reason for the change being that 
the Association has endeavored to make all the chambers conform 
with the following rules: 
1. That the length of the chamber (A) equal the nominal length 
6i the case for which it is constructed. 
2. That the front end of the cliamber (B) be a constant dimen- 
sion in all chambers of the same nominal gauge. 
3. That all shotgun chambei's shall have a uniform taper of 
.005in. in every inch of length. . 
4. That the diameter of rim (D) Shall be one-ninth greater than 
the diameter of the front end of the chamber (B), with a mini- 
mum difference between (C) and (D) of .050in. (D = B -|- 
5. That the depth of rim recess (E) shall eqiial one-twelfth of the 
diameter of the front end of the chamber CB), with a minimum 
depth of .050in, ^^). 
6. That the wall of the rim recess and the wall of the chamber 
be joined by an arc of a circle (F) having a radius equal to one- 
half the difference between the diameter of the rim (D) arid of the 
t> C 
chamber under the rim (C). (F = — ^ — ). 
ENLAROEO 
VIEW or RIM 
I 
The changes involved are, as a rule, of small moment, amount- 
ing as they do to less than .005in, where diameters arc concerned. 
For instance, the old diameter of the rim of the 12-bore was stated 
at .882, whereas it now stands at ,886. The size of the head was 
.811, which remains as before for the 2%in. case, but has been in- 
creased to .812 and .813 for the 2%in. and 3in. cases respectively, the 
diameter at the front end of the chamber remaining .798 as heretofore. 
The rim thickness has been reduced from .074 to .067, which is a 
change that is likely to be of advantage, as the old size was, if any- 
thing, on the large side, allowing for effects of wear causing a 
slight rounding off of the edge upon which the cartridge takes 
its bearing. 
The most serious change is, however, concerned in the alteration 
of the length of the chamber. The first rule, as above quoted, ac- 
counts for this divergence. We are not sure exactly how things 
stand with regard to this last-named alteration. The present card, 
unlike its predecessor, does not contain the registered acceptance 
of the sizes by the ammunition manufacturers, and so large an 
alteration in the length of the cartridge is bound to create dif- 
ficulties unless special steps are taken to prevent the same hap- 
pening. The guns at present in use have been constructed with 
chambers 2.56in. long, and a proposal that in future 2.5in. should 
be the figure involves an excess of chamber length amounting to 
.06, which is practically l-16in. It is generally agreed that the best 
shooting is only to be obtained from guns whose chambers closely 
approximate to the length of the cartridge case intended for them, 
and to produce a change of this character is open to objection in 
that it sacrifices the efficiency of the shooting to a slavish following 
of an empirical rule. 
The cartridge maker, on the other hand, will also be affected by 
the change, especially in view of the want of common action that 
is likely to result from the absence of a preliminary indorsement. 
By inference, the minimum size of the chamber is the maximum 
size of the cartridge, and hence if the cartridge is materially shorter 
than the maximum size, and the toleration of the chamber also 
works at the extreme limit, the difference between the two is likely 
to be much more than is desirable. Then again, the whole ques- 
tion of cartridge loading is materially afi^ected by a shortening of 
the case by an amount representing the thickness of a medium 
card w;ad. The cartridge loading of the present day is based upon 
the existing length of cartridge, and although, as we pointed out in 
our last issue, there is space to spare with the short charges of shot 
that are now popular, the loading instructions which are used by 
the trade are based upon the greater length of case, so that it would 
be necessary, where standard charges are used, to otstain the extra 
space by greater compression of the charge, by altering the wad- 
ding, or by reducing the amount for turning over. All these 
changes are of a kind which are likely to cause trouble unless made 
in simultaneous agreement by all concerned, and there is no evi- 
dence that this agreement exists at the present time. Of course, 
the actual effect of a chamber sliortened to the new sizes on a 
2 9-16ths cartridge is largely regulated by the form of the cone 
adopted; but assuming that the cone is %in. in length, there will 
be a total reduction from the front of the chamber to the bore of 
the barrel of .069in., which would make a constriction of .OOSin. 
at the mouth of the case, with the turnover opened out. This 
may not appear to be a very large amount, but, on the other hand, 
it is against the principle of harmcny between cartridge case and 
chamber. Our columns have frequently contained evidence of the 
danger to the gun and the bad shtooting that results from firing 
pigeon cases in a game gun. The pigeon case is 3-16in. longer than 
the game cartridge case; it would .■seem that an error amounting to 
one-third of this amount must stilf contain objectionable features. 
Of course, there is no question as to the unsatisfactory results 
that would be bound to follow in the case of guns bored to the 
new sizes with a square or very nearly square cone when fired 
with the longer cartridge cases. Under these circumstances we 
hardly feel prepared to adopt the new length suggested for' the 
nominal 2i/2in. chamber until there is more complete evidence that 
the change will be generally accepted by gunmakers and cartridge 
loaders. 
We think that the several diameters and thicknesses of rim may 
be accepted without demur at the present time, though, of course, 
there are in several instances chaaiges of an almost revolutionary 
character. For instance, some cartridges have had dispropor- 
tionately large rims, while with otlhers they have been so small as 
to make satisfactory extraction almost an impossibility. The 24- 
bore cartridge as ordinarily supplied has a rim thickness of about 
.080, and a rim diameter of .750. According to the new rule, these 
have been altered so that the first measurement becomes .054 and 
the other .722. The 20-bore, on the other hand, has erred on the 
opposite extreme, the usual thackness being about .054 and the 
diameter .743. these now being .057 and .761 respectively. In the 
case of the 20-bore cartridge the change cannot cause any con- 
siderable difficulty on account of the facility with which guns with 
unduly small rim recesses may be opened out, but, as metal cannot 
be added, it is possible that, if the ammunition manufacturers adopt 
the new sizes for the 24-bore, it may be necessary for the next 
few years to make cartridges of two patterns, so that the old guns 
may not be rendered obsolete. 
There is very little to say in explanation of the general rules 
that have been laid down for controlling the sizes of the different 
bores of the chamber. The basis of the whole calculation is the 
nominal diameter , of each caliber of barrel as recognized by the 
proof houses. Tlx; diameter of a 12-bore barrel is for instance 
.729in., and the walls of the 12-bore cartridge case are, as a rule, about 
.0,30 thick. The external diameter of a cartridge case which is 12- 
bore internally would therefore b« .789in. Allowing about ten- 
thousandths of an inch to permit the easy entry of the cartridge 
it will be seen that the mouth of the chamber would need to be 
about .799in. diameter, which is in close agreement with the size 
specified in the accompanying table. The bore of the barrel being 
therefore a fixed quantity, and the mouth of the chamber being 
determined by the thickness of the cartridge tube the next dimen- 
sion to fix is the diameter of the chamber at the 'breech It is an 
accepted principle of gunmaking that the chamber shall be in the 
form of a straight taper, so that when the cartridge has been 
slightly withdrawn in the process of extraction it shall be an easy 
fit, so as to facilitate extraction. Experience has shown that a 
taper of .OlSin in the 2V2in. chamber is auite sufficient tn provfde 
he is thereby enabled to adjust his chamber tool making lathes 
and grinders to the universal taper, so that the need for constant 
readjustment is obviated. With the old sizes for 12 16 and 20- 
bore cartridges this convenience was not recognized, so that the 
machines had to be readjusted according to the taper required for 
any given caliber or length of cartridge. It is in this connection 
that the new sizes merit full recognition, though, of course, we 
must still maintain our reservation with regard to the want of 
harmony which appears to exist in regard to the matter at length. — 
Field (London), 
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The Lehfgh Rod and Gan Clob. 
Bethlehem, Pa., Oct S.— Appended are the scores for the 
one-day tournament on Oct. 2 on the grounds at the club. The 
day was fine, and all the shooters were in exceptionally good 
humor. 
In the shoot-off Mr. S. Glover won first prize, a Winchester 
??™?T r.P^^'^^ ''^'O" second. Du Pont third. Ritter fotirth, 
M. H. R. fifth, Peifie sixth, Koch seventh, Deitrich eighth, 
15enner ninth, Englert tenth, Frederick eleventh. Delegate twelfth. 
Huff thirteenth. Sobers fourteenth, Thomas fifteenth, Brey 
sixteenth Hankey seventeenth, Hahn, eighteenth, Miller nine- 
teenth, Murfy twentieth, Hausman twenty-first. 
Glover won first high average; Bray won second high average: 
Murfy won third high average. 
Events: 
Targets 
Daudt . . _ _ 
Keller . . 7 n n 
Morfey 7 n 9 
M H R 8 13 11 
ihomas 4 9 2 
Hahn 5 10 13 
Du Pont 7 8 11 
Hankey 10 14 14 
Glover 10 15 14 
Hausman g 8 13 
Englert S 14 12 
Peifle 8 11 g 
Murfy 9 12 13 
Kitter S U 13 
Deitrich 7 8 7 
Brey 8 11 15 
Miller ... - 6 13 13 
Huff 8 .. .. 
Benner 13 .. 14 12 
Koch 5 11 10 
Frederick 12 8 12 i? 
Dehgate e 10 
hobers , j]^ 
Mercliandise event, handicap; 
Erk. Hdcp. Total. 
123456789 
10 15 15 5p 20 15 10 15 20 
8 13 10 5 13 10 9 13 14 
15 11 9 9 15 
16 11 7 12 14 
15 10 10 12 16 
5 2 . . 
17 10 6 io 18 
11 
19 12 9 13 15 
18 15 10 14 20 
IS 12 10 14 14 
8 17 10 6 13 16 
6 17 . . . . 13 20 
7 16 15 10 12 16 
6 18 11 7 11 15 
4 11 
8 19 15 
6 17 12 
10 10 10 
8 15 17 
9 11 16 
7 .. .. 
7 10 14 
Shot 
at. 
Broke. 
130 
95 
130 
93 
130 
94 
130 
102 
90 
34 
130 
92 
70 
44 
130 
108 
130 
125 
130 
104 
130 
104 
105 
83 
130 
110 
130 
100 
130 
70 
130 
116 
130 
103 
20 
15 
95 
70 
40 
26 
60 
49 
35 
16 
20 
11 
Keller 20 
Daudt 19 
Morfey^ 19 
M H R 21 
Thomas 10 
Hahn 16 
Du Pont 22 
Hankey .19 
Glover , . .24 
Hausman 17 
Englert . . , , 22 
Peifle 19 
Brk. 
V 25 MuriV 18 
7 25 Ritter 19 
7 25 Deitrich 18 
• 6 25 Brey 21 
16 25 Miller 17 
7 23 Hui¥ 20 
9 25 Benner 21 
4 23 Koch 16 
5 2a Frederick 22 
5 22 Delegate ....,.,16 
4 25 Sobers .16 
6 25 
Hdcp. 
4 
6 
8 
3 
6 
10 
7 
10 
5 
14 
10 
Total. 
22 
25 
25 
24 
23 
25 
25 
25 
25 
25 
25 
Winchester Gon Glob. 
Detroit Mjch.-;At the regular shoot. Oct. 4, conditions were 
not favorable tor high scores, the air being raw and a Wrfi wind 
prevailing. The tie in Class B between Gutharri nnH ti^r.h i 1 
on^^he ten best club event scores of ^^ke^Sr^to'^dlte^'l^-S'^So^ 
Brodie woii the medal in Clas« A with fn r'>,n,„_j 1 • 1 • 
ng are the scores the fast event being, the club event: 
Events: j 
10 
5 
Target.s 
T.rodie . . 
Guthard 
Hitchcock 
McMath 
Roehm 
AfcAdam 
Ford . . - 
Barthel . 
Shiell ...^ 
Bachmann 
Harr!.s , . . 
2 
15 
8 
11 
9 
9 
2 
3 
10 
7 
8 
7 
4 
15 
5 
10 
6 
25 
5 
10 
7 
2 
5 
6 % 
21 
18 
13 
18 
32 
"s 
7 
25 
20 
18 
17 
15 
15 
20 
4 
14 
4 
