Smoking and Tobacco Control Monograph No. 7 
DR. DEBETHIZY: I just do not even see a reason to address that question 
because smoking is a habit that people engage in, and people enjoy smoking. 
1 think we have a situation where people enjoy smoking; they have a wide 
range of products to choose from; they can choose lower yielding products. 
The data — whether it is plasma cotinine or total urinary uptake — show 
that they get, when they smoke lower yielding cigarettes, less material, 
on average. 
Now, the FTC method was never intended to address that question. 
It was intended to address the relative ranking of cigarettes. 
DR. SHIFFMAN: Actually, what your data show is that within the broad 
range in which sales are actually concentrated — let's say from .4 to about 1.0, 
1.2, FTC nicotine — people are getting, on average, the same, regardless of the 
nominal yield. So, in fact, your own data, as Dr. Rickert pointed out earlier, 
suggest that, in fact, the numbers do not track. 
DR. SHIFFMAN: What your data show is that people who smoke cigarettes 
of .1 are very much lower than people smoking 1.4. But if you look at the 
middle range, we could probably compute the correlation by tomorrow, but 
1 would warrant that it is close to zero. 
DR. DEBETHIZY: And the middle range is a very narrow range of tar and 
nicotine yield. 
DR. HENNINGFIELD: Let me just bring closure to my point, because what 
I see — and I think Dr. Shiftman is pointing out, too — is that what you see 
with humans with other addictive drugs, and what you see in animals, is 
compensation that is partial. And that seems to be what we are seeing here: 
another case of an addictive drug that controls behavior, and you do get 
compensation, although it is not perfect. That seems to be the biological 
process going on. 
DR. TOWNSEND: And I think you and I fundamentally disagree about 
that, because it is like coffee drinking. I do not see myself as being, if I drink 
1 cup of coffee 1 day and 10 cups of coffee the next day, I do not see that 
as compensation. I just see that as responding to different situations and 
choosing to drink coffee under those different environmental conditions. 
And I see smoking as a very similar activity that people engage in. 
DR. KOZLOWSKI: I his is a supplement to Fred Bock's question and point. 
Years ago, in Foronto, we tried to do a saliva test, 1 think similar to the one 
you did. We collaborated with the forensic laboratory for the Province of 
Ontario, and a Ph.D. student in pharmacology worked on it. 
And we never ()ublished it because we did not find it useful, in part 
because the lii)s, in general, were too dry and were not depositing that 
much saliva and were doing it in a very soggy manner. 
We found that a much more straightforward technique would be to take 
cha()stick or li[) gloss, and that would stain the filter overwrap. You could 
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