Chapter 1 3 
then dissect the cigarette and count the holes that have been blocked by 
that. We tried that technique and abandoned it as unsuccessful. 
Just months ago, we published in Pharmacology, Biochemistry and 
Behavior a validation of the stain pattern technique using Marlboro Lights, 
Winston Lights, Marlboro Ultralights — I am not sure about the four or five 
other brands. They worked just fine. 
Even with ventilated filter cigarettes, which may be ventilated in the 
20- to 30-percent range rather than 80 or 90, you can get a team of raters 
to do reliable judgment. 
DR. DEBETHIZY: I think what is important is that some individuals may 
block holes when they smoke cigarettes. What is important is what happens 
over the course of their entire smoking day and what happens, on average, 
with people. And I think there has been an incredible emphasis placed on 
blocking holes here today, and I think that Dr. Townsend's talk clearly 
showed that there are many, many other techniques used to lower tar and 
nicotine, techniques that could not be overcome by the smoking behavior 
of the individual. 
DR. FREEMAN: What I am going to do is say to cut this at this point and 
maybe we can continue it tomorrow. We were due to be finished about 
20 minutes ago. It may be a little hard on these two gentleman, who have 
been very gracious in answering these questions. We do not want to put 
them under too much, but we would like to bring you back tomorrow, if 
you do not mind, for further discussion. But let's have these two questions. 
DR. BENOWITZ: There has been some suggestion about providing the 
consumer with more information, such as making ventilation holes visible 
so that people can see them and not block them, and give them information 
about what intense smoking would do, which you could simulate by 
machines. Are there any negative aspects about doing those things, from 
your perspective, and why not provide more information like that? 
DR. DEBETHIZY: I think Dr. Townsend addressed it earlier when he 
responded that we would consider any reasonable proposal as long as there 
were some data to support that proposal. 
And I am assuming that is what you all will do, and at least start the 
process. And you all may conclude that the FTC method is fine as it is, but 
I certainly do not have any problem with looking at reasonable proposals. 
We have a motto at our company that we work for smokers. And if we 
can be convinced that it is meaningful for the consumer, that might warrant 
consideration. 
DR. TOWNSEND: But you understand that we believe, today, that the FTC 
test method is useful for the consumer; that its presence has been beneficial 
for consumers making choices and also for driving the industry to reduce tar 
and nicotine levels to this great extent that we have. 
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