Section II 
DR. HENNINGFIELD: Then if we play by your rules, what is wrong with 
putting on the cigarettes, "Your intake may vary on a cigarette that is so- 
called an 'ultralow'" and put right on the cigarette, "You may get up to 
3 mg of nicotine and 80 mg of tar from this, depending on how you smoke 
it"? What would be wrong with that? Wouldn't that just provide honest 
information to consumers so that they would know? Maybe even giving 
them a little bit of information that you folks know and we know about 
what pushes it up there, such as smoking harder and things like that; what 
is wrong with that? 
DR. DEBETHIZY: As I said yesterday, we are quite willing to consider any 
reasonable proposal, and 1 suspect, Mr. Chairman, we are going to move into 
that mode eventually where we will discuss those proposals, and that is a 
proposal to put on the table and discuss. 
DR. HENNINGFIELD: I am not sure that is an issue right now, but so, you 
would not object to that concept? 
DR. DEBETHIZY: I would not object to putting that proposal on the table 
because my understanding of what this panel is supposed to do is to make 
recommendations like that for serious study and consideration. 
DR. FREEMAN: Dr. Cohen? 
DR. COHEN: Let me just say that a lot of the discussion proceeds from 
what experts know about the FTC method and what it was designed to 
do. I think the real question is what consumers think the numbers mean. 
So, the important issue is how do consumers understand these numbers, 
and I think it would come as a shock to them that these are only to be taken 
as rankings. That would come as a great shock, and I think we should keep 
that in mind. 
DR. TOWNSEND: That is a point. Dr. Cohen, where we clearly disagree. 
DR. COHEN: Do you have any data that show that consumers only think 
about these numbers as rankings? 
DR. TOWNSEND: It is clear to us that consumers look at tar information; 
they also look at the category of cigarettes they smoke, whether it is a light 
or an ultralight or regular, and they make decisions in the marketplace. The 
actual fact is that in the market, sales-weighted tar and nicotine yields have 
declined dramatically over the years, and people have traded taste to do that. 
DR. COHEN: Let me say, in response, that that is perfectly consistent with 
consumers believing that these are real numbers, not rankings. Your scenario 
fits a situation in which consumers think that by going down to a very-low- 
yield cigarette that these are cardinal numbers and real numbers. I am asking 
you whether your company or any cigarette company has data that indicate 
that consumers only think about these as rankings. The answer is either yes 
or no. 
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