26 
MS. PFUND: I think that would have been a better way to do it. 
DR. SHAW: Dr. Fredrickson, I would like to suggest that perhaps Ms. 
Pfund could — 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Are you Dr. Sinkford? 
DR SHAW: Dr. Shaw. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Oh, Margery Shaw, whom I didn't introduce because 
you weren't here. 
DR. SHAW: I came in late. 
I would like to suggest that to follow up these criticisms, perhaps 
Ms. Pfund could provide the Committee with a document of specific recommen- 
dations as to at what points and how she would like the public to become 
involved. In other words, would you want a public representative on a 
subcommittee of the RAC and so forth? Where would you like the documents 
to be sent, and to whom? I think that NIH is trying to open the procedures 
to the public, and we would like guidelines on how best to do that. 
MS. PFUND: Well, I plan to develop some ideas on this. I was planning 
to talk about that in the roles and responsibilities section. Do you think 
I should wait until then? 
DR. FREDRICKSON: I think you should; and then on the basis of what 
further you hear, it may help your own development on that idea. 
Mr. Helms. 
MR. HELMS: I am interested, are you attacking the proposition that 
if it is not novel, it is safe? In other words, it occurred to me that 
somehow in your remarks you were taking that concept on, and I wanted to be 
sure if you were, because it was my impression as a non-scientist, that that 
was one of the few concepts that came out of the democratic process — that 
is, out of the legislation that has grown up about this subject, and that 
has been adopted from there. 
My question is, Do you believe that if it is not novel, it is not safe? 
MS. PFUND: I don't think you can make a categorical statement like 
that. I think that by making a list of non-novel recombinants, that list 
may not insure that the recombinants on that list are safe just because of 
the increased frequency and proliferation of the organism that you put on 
that list. That is going to change the nature of safety. 
MR. HELMS: In other words you would have that list written organism- 
by-organism as has been suggested? Each one is determined to fall on the 
list for specified reasons? 
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