34 
Secondly, that they undergo some amount of peer review so that there 
is some credibility to their information. Dr. Davis mentioned earlier that 
as a microbiologist he feels the hazard has been grossly exaggerated, and 
now there is some revision to it. He mentioned K12, E. coli K-12. The 
question is can you use that one host-vector system to extrapolate to all 
of the systems, and what kind of a generic statement you can make. I mean, 
these are the sorts of questions I am posing right now, and maybe we should 
discuss them as we go along. 
The second question is how do you do a risk-assessment in a field of 
this sort, quantitatively, for example? You don't really have epidemiological 
information; you have models maybe at best. And what kind of peer review 
has that undergone? I mean, that is the biggest gap I see in making any 
kind of public policy determination, that there is no outside involvement 
even of professional people outside the fields of molecular biology and 
microbiologv . 
DR. FREDRICKSON: I think that is quite relevant. I would say that 
your stating this proposition or this problem is very useful, and that the 
Committee will probably want to discuss it tomorrow during the afternoon, 
when it will have that whole period for open discussion, expression of 
comments, and so forth. I think it would be wisest, perhaps, if you were 
to address that issue in specific questions to witnesses that appear or to 
any who have appeared already, in case you wanted to clarify the record or 
get something out to enrich that discussion tomorrow. 
Dr. Gustafson. 
DR. GUSTAFSON: Could I ask Mr. Thacher and others on the representa- 
tion, in a written way to the Committee, not to discuss it now, what sorts 
of groups ought to be included? My question comes out of the following 
consideration. One can see that there are some differences of judgment on 
scientific matters and the inferences to be drawn from them. There are 
other differences of judgment which are almost purely moral differences 
of judgment, and the question is how wide a representation and on what kinds 
of ground would one select groups that ought to be represented in the public 
participation on this topic. 
MR. THACHER: I would take one brief example, and those are groups 
who are involved with workers' health and safety, who are familiar with 
problems of laboratory safety, whose expertise would be valuable. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Other questions? Ms. Simring, you are up next, 
so you will have your time in just a second. 
MS. SIMRING: This was a question. If this is indeed a meeting — and 
I hope that it is — to encourage frank and honest and open exchange among 
many different sectors of society, and many varying opinions, perhaps this 
is the time for me to ask one question concerning risk-assessment, which 
Dr. Ahmed raised. 
The Federal Register of October — 
[ 238 ] 
