67 
DR. FREDRICKSON: That is a role and a responsibility. 
(Laughter . ) 
DR. KING: My provost is here. 
(Laughter . ) 
For example, my own graduate students, despite the fact that I have 
been a critic of recombinant DNA research, many of them will go on to their 
career and they will be engaged in recombinant DNA research, and I can very 
closely assess, are they getting any training in this area of biohazards. 
And the answer is that they are getting a Ph.D., and I am sure that they 
are superior microbial geneticists and electron microscop ist s , but they 
don't have formal training around laboratory safety. My feeling is that 
nowadays, to get a Ph.D., which puts you in the position of being a princi- 
pal investigator, that what we now define as appropriate training should be 
expanded, and if scientists are going to take up their public responsibili- 
ty, they have to be armed with the information. With ignorance you just 
cannot be responsible. 
Thank you. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: One more comment? Dr. Szybalski. 
DR. SZYBALSKI: There is one thing which you are missing, Jon, when 
you say somebody could stop himself with a needle through the heart, or 
something like this. This does not induce the problem of communicability of 
disease, and that is 'what we are worrying about, terrible epidemics. So 
that goes with the intestinal tract. 
* 
DR. FREDRICKSON: I think Dr. King is going to return and say he is 
also interested in the worker. 
DR. KING: I have never been worried about terrible epidemics. I never 
thought that those were likely at all. I don't think that is the problem. 
DR. SZYBALSKI: That is the problem. 
DR. KING: Well, it depends on who you are. To get stabbed with an in- 
fectious agent is very nasty. Just the anxiety is a problem. 
(Laughter . ) 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Thank you, Dr. King, very much. 
We will proceed now to the final invited witness in this area, Mr. Leslie 
Dach . 
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