88 
I think in that case that is the answer, that we don't really have any in 
vivo experiments of that sort. In terms of the phage vector we may have a 
little bit more information, and that the phage itself disappears. If you 
swallow it you don't see it. But there is not extensive data. 
DR. CHILTON: That makes it very hard to evaluate how strong the bio- 
logical containment is, it seems to me. 
DR. GOTTESMAN: Yes, to some extent it does. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Any other questions or comments? 
This is a very complex section which Dr. Gottesman has capably summa- 
rized very quickly. I have a lot of questions derived from comments which 
came in on this section, Dr. Gottesman, but I don't want to burden the Com- 
mittee with them. Except that I would like to ask you one question if I 
may . 
It has been argued by some of the commentators that the present biolog- 
ical containment section — and actually the previous one as well — discrimi- 
nates rather implicitly against any host-vector systems other than E. coli 
K-12. Is that your feeling? 
DR. GOTTESMAN: Yes, I think that is true. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: It is deliberately so? 
DR. GOTTESMAN: Yes, that is certainly the impression. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: It was the Committee's decision to do that? 
DR. GOTTESMAN: Well, I wasn't around when the original Guidelines were 
put together, but clearly there is a very large section on what one does 
with E. coli K-12 containment, and it has certainly been the interpretation 
of ORDA over the last year that anything other than E. coli K-12 should be 
treated very gingerly. We are opening the door a little bit to other things, 
but not all the way. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Thank you. 
Sir John. 
SIR JOHN KENDREW: Well, I was actually going to raise exactly the same 
point, because it does seem to me that there are a lot of people in the 
world who are very anxious to get their hands on other systems, and it is 
just a kind of historical accident that there has been all the concentration 
on E. coli , for good historical reasons. But it does seem to me very impor- 
tant that the other systems should be explored as rapidly and thoroughly as 
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