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descriptive parameters of performance with good indicator organisms by which 
to test the system. There is quite a bit of concern among scientists that in 
fact E, coli K-12, let alone the 1776 strain, are all so well biologically 
contained that in many species it would be not constructive to attempt to 
achieve those same kinds of biological containment standards. For example, 
there are other parameters of containment that would have to be taken as 
making up for the low survival characteristics of E. coli K-12. It may be 
that plant pathogens that are pathogenic only to tropical fruits and vege- 
tables could be studied quite safely in temperate greenhouses because the 
mechanism for transmittal back to the environment in which they are a patho- 
gen doesn't exist. But I am concerned, and I reflect concern from the 
scientific community, that K-12 is already so excellently biologically 
contained that it may be an inappropriate standard when one goes to other 
organisms . 
I would hope that the Committee and the public can be given examples 
of recombinant DNA research and experimentation. So much of what we hear 
here is focused on the details of developing hosts and vectors, and the 
direct involvement where recombinant manipulation is a major part of the 
activity, that I think it misrepresents what goes on in a typical laboratory 
using recombinant DNA technology as a tool. There it is quite frequent that 
less than one percent of the time in a laboratory that may use this as a 
powerful tool, would you actually ever have an organism in the lab containing 
recombinant DNA molecules in a state where the organism could multiply. 
There are very substantial innovations and progress being made by which much 
of the wealth of information from this technology can be obtained and never 
having a viable recombinant DNA-cont aining system leaving a tightly-contained 
glove box. So really, the manipulation never has to go outside of that. 
Anything that is removed is already a killed cell or already the extracted 
DNA free of organisms. So I think understanding of the process and the 
activities in which this technology is used would be very helpful for the 
Committee, and I would encourage the NIH to perhaps find examples, and 
describe the experiments that are done. 
I really am encouraging that criteria for performance be described 
when you set up both physical and biological containment. A particular 
point which worries me a bit is that the Guidelines tend to become mech- 
anical rather than achievement-oriented in reference to a foot- or automatic- 
controlled washing station in the laboratory. Many laboratories feel that 
it is much safer to have basins of disinfectant and washing solutions not 
connected to running water systems or drains at all. That would be pre- 
ferred to an automatically operated one. So there are some solutions which 
some scientists would believe are better safety factors than the ones that 
appear to be mandated in the Guidelines. 
Thank you. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Thank you, Dr. Bock. Are there questions for Dr. Bock? 
Mr. Hutt. 
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