100 
DR. TOOZE : No, the risk-assessment experiment is to take polyoma DNA 
intact, and put it into a plasmid and into a lambda phage vector, put it into 
E. coli, and then put those coli into mice, baby mice, and see whether they 
come down with an infection. That is a simulation of one of the possible 
escape routes of a recombinant DNA in the things you have been talking 
about . 
The situation is we have made the recombinant molecules and have prop- 
agated them, and have chemically characterized them, and then to see that 
they still have some infectivity — the polyoma DNA that is in there still has 
some inf ect ivi ty--they will be put on mouse cells in culture early next year, 
and then finally, do the mouse experiment, which is the expensive part of the 
business . 
Now, this experiment is not novel. It was first discussed in a meeting 
of the American Recombinant DNA Advisory Committee, and at one stage it was 
to be done here by Drs. Martin and Rowe, and in Europe by our group. I think 
that if I understood it correctly, a special dispensation was given by the 
American Committee to conduct this experiment, but now the block to it is 
either because there is no P4 facility available, or because of court injunc- 
tions on the use of it when it is available. All I am saying is that whatever 
is going on there, the experiment is already under way and proceeding on the 
other side of the Atlantic. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Sir John. 
SIR JOHN KENDREW: Well, as the one non-American member of your Com- 
mittee, I could comment that it does seem to me an unfortunate thing, if 
true, that an important risk-testing experiment has been inhibited for any 
bureaucratic reasons, because it seems to me that everybody would agree 
that everything should be done to encourage the performance of risk-testing 
experiments. I can only say that speaking as a European, I am glad we are on 
the way, and I think it is a pity that you are not. 
(Laughter . ) 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Mr. Hutt. 
MR. HUTT: Could we hear a brief statement of the actual situation 
there — why it has not gone forward, if someone knows? 
DR. FREDRICKSON: It is Dr. Rowe's experiment, so I think he should 
go ahead and — 
DR. ROWE: No, it is really Dr. Martin's, but I am the talker and he 
is the doer. 
The major project is that we had a very nice second birthday party for 
it a week ago, since its inception, and we are nursing it in the incubator 
very well. Malcolm has done the preliminary work. He has developed the 
cloning systems and so on, and scientifically it has been ready to go for 
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