104 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Mr. Helms. 
MR. HELMS: Yes, I wanted to ask one question. I would gather that 
you would agree with the specific portion that has been added to these pro- 
posed Guidelines that the Director be given the discretion to allow risk- 
assessment experiments to go forward outside the Guidelines. I would think 
that you would be in favor of that. Is that so? 
MS. PFUND: I am not going to give a blanket approval, but I think 
that risk-assessment studies need to be done that perhaps will require 
relaxing the Guidelines for those specific instances. 
MR. HELMS: Well, I assume that the Director would exercise that dis- 
cretion with the utmost care. I think that is assumed. But under those 
circumstances, or with that proviso, would you endorse that suggestion? 
MS. PFUND: Yes, I would, but I still, as far as — I still see the need 
for very deliberate caution in the certification process. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Dr. Ahmed. 
DR. AHMED: That was the same question I had. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Are there any other questions for Ms. Pfund? 
Dr . Tooze . 
DR. TOOZE: May I just--since this is the public record, it ought to 
be accurate. I did not say that any European group certified any system 
other than E. coli, but simply that they were interested in doing so. 
MS. PFUND: Okay, but it seems like they are farther along in the 
process . 
DR. TOOZE: That makes things accurate, and that always helps. 
MS. PFUND: O.K., I'm sorry. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Thank you, Dr. Tooze. Are there other comments or 
questions ? 
Dr. Davis had a brief comment as a public witness at this point. Dr. 
Davis is not here? 
Then Dr. Cape, who asked for a small amount of time. 
DR. CAPE: Again, I would like to make a brief general statement, and 
Dr. Gelfand will follow with, again, hopefully brief specific statements. 
[ 308 ] 
