125 
all that bizarre. It is not like 150 pounds times atmospheric pressure and 
200 degrees Centigrade. These are calcium conditions, and we certainly have 
equal amounts of calcium in the intestinal tract. The heat shock, which is 
very nice to use for optimizing transmission is not absolutely required. We 
routinely avoid the heat shock step when we are using temperature-sensitive 
mutants, and we get transformation. So these are not such terrible condi- 
tions that they have demonstrated will carry out this in vivo recombination 
event . 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Yes, Ms. King. 
MS. KING: I have a question of an entirely different order, perhaps 
more appropriately made tomorrow, so you can advise me of that fact. I am 
curious about the procedure for specific experiments that might be exempted 
upon the Director's ruling, and why the Recombinant DNA Molecule Program 
Advisory Committee was selected as the only route in terms of process or 
procedure for making decisions with respect to exemptions. I don't know if 
I should ask this speaker or whether I should wait, but you can advise me. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: I think that is a very appropriate question. It 
deals with the question of the prohibited experiments. Did you get the 
quest ion? 
DR. HELINSKI: I am not sure really who it was directed at. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: I think it is probably as much to me as it is to you, 
but why not your perspective from that of the Recombinant DNA Advisory Com- 
mittee? 
DR. HELINSKI: I will try to tell you what I think our Committee's per- 
spective is on this — that we can clearly envision certain cases where an 
individual for, as I indicated, compelling scientific or societal reasons, 
would like to carry out one of these prohibited experiments under particular 
conditions. I think that as a Committee we should be prepared to consider 
such . 
MS. KING: I don't think you understood my question. I thought the 
problem was providing an escape clause. I am having problems with the 
procedure that operates with respect to the escape clause, and it seems to 
me there are only two levels of review contemplated--one by your Committee 
and one by the Director. I am curious about why there isn't an effort, 
particularly for experiments that would otherwise have been excluded, not 
to have a broader consideration of those experiments in terms of advice to 
the Director. 
DR. HELINSKI: Your point is well made, and we have considered this. 
It is our feeling that if the experimental details or the issue here gets 
beyond our realm of expertise — for example, if it gets in the area of plant 
biology, and the possibility, say, of using larger than ten-liter amounts of 
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