136 
I guess, initially, with respect to my own response to the contain- 
ment levels for the animal virus experiments, I felt that they were set at a 
reasonably cautious level. But I have come around now that, in view of the 
experimentation that has been carried out on the EK1 and EK2 systems and the 
additional information that we have received from a number of experts in the 
field, that I think that if I really were to come down on it I would view them 
as being perhaps overly cautious at the present time. 
MR. HELMS: I am not sure of the mechanism for this, but is it pos- 
sible that the Europeans could give us the benefit of their research when 
published, and that it could be considered when the final Guidelines come 
up to see whether we really need as high a level of containment for the 
experiments which Drs. Martin and Rowe want to carry out as we have said in 
the past, and has the new research added something to our fund of knowledge 
now? What do we need from them to prove the point to us? 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Dr. Skalka. 
DR. SKALKA: Would it be possible for me to make a short statement? 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Yes, it would. 
DR. GINSBERG: May I ask a question of Dr. Rowe? 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Of course. Dr. Ginsberg first and then Dr. Skalka. 
DR. GINSBERG: Wally, I am completely unclear as to why polyoma has 
assumed such a high-risk status. Why are the Guidelines written like 
this? Why do you recommend this? 
DR. ROWE: It is very hard to say, because that's over into the poli- 
tical area. 
DR. GINSBERG: Well, let's talk as scientists now. Let Don worry 
about the politics. 
DR. ROWE: I think we have to first divide these two areas that we 
are talking about. Are we talking about the insertion into prokaryotes, 
or the use of polyoma as a vehicle into eukaryotic cells? 
DR. GINSBERG: I would start with the insertion into prokaryotes, 
and I will get to the use as a vector later. 
DR. ROWE: Well, I think historically it is just the picture of viral 
genomes being delivered in new host-range systems that had many people 
concerned, and we said, well, this is one area where we will be very tight 
until we can get the information we need, until we can get a data base. We 
can see ways to get a better data base, and we wouldn't always have to guess. 
I think we very deliberately said let's placate the fears that were very 
clear at the time. I really feel that this was an over-political decision. 
You can't divorce the scientific from the political. We said this is an 
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