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does that, and do you come up with a master list, or do you have a committee 
that makes ad hoc decisions, and gives the answers in response to specific 
requests from specific investigators? What is the procedural mechanism for 
handling that kind of issue? 
DR. TOOZE: I will answer the first question first. In the United King 
dom primate and other mammalian shotgun experiments are category three, 
physical containment. 
MR. HUTT: And they are four here? 
DR. TOOZE: Yes. You remember Emmett Barkley drew those slides. You 
can argue whether category three is greater than the American P3, which it 
is, but it is certainly not as stringent as American P4 , which is extremely 
difficult to achieve. 
MR. HUTT: Now, is research going on in that area in England? 
DR. TOOZE: To be sure, yes. 
MR. HUTT: Well, that answers that. 
DR. TOOZE: Very much so, yes. I mean, someone is busily cloning hu- 
man X chromosome DNA, absolutely. Why not? That is what we wish to do. 
MR. HUTT: Now, the second part of it is how — 
DR. TOOZE: The second part, I think it must clearly be the case. If 
everybody looks at the way the Guidelines in the States and in other coun- 
tries are drawn up, it is quite clear in my opinion that virus work has been 
ditched. There is at least one European country, which will remain nameless 
which decided that it needed something in the highest category for political 
reasons, so they put viruses there, because there were hardly any virolo- 
gists on its national committee. That is a fact and I believe that it is 
the case that in the United States the virologists have been relatively 
weakly represented. There is no question about that; just look at the compo 
sition. And you have Guidelines that reflect this. 
Now, at this stage we are all busily revising the Guidelines, and we 
have an opportunity to do something about it. You simply cannot — I don't 
believe you can expect anybody to buy this package on viruses. I am not 
saying that the Committee should be blamed or whatever for all the work it 
has done, because it has done a lot of work under the most extremely trying 
conditions. But what I would say is that EMBO, on the European basis will 
be very pleased to do it, as we did with the NIH on that physical contain- 
ment workshop to which Emmett Barkley referred — to make some attempt to 
assess the taxonomic groups of viruses, the host range, the virulence, the 
pathogenicity of viruses, and then assess some risk for those viruses. 
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