158 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Dr. Zaitlin said it is. Perhaps you could point it 
out to us, Dr. Zaitlin. 
DR. ZAITLIN: Well, unfortunately I don't have the Federal Register ver- 
sion. It says the experiment shall be carried out under P3 conditions if 
the source of the inserted DNA is not itself a pathogen or known to carry 
such pathogenic agents, or to produce harmful products. And under P4 condi- 
tions if these conditions are not met. That is the statement to which I was 
referring. That is on page 49603. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Page 49603, column three. 
Perhaps we will pass that point and let Drs. Chilton and Zaitlin con- 
sult . 
Are there any other comments or questions at this point? 
MR. HUTT : Could we hear what the situation is in Europe? We heard a 
brief description of the relative degree of restriction in the animal area. 
Could we have a brief description of the relative regulatory or guideline 
situation with respect to plants? 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Dr. Tooze, can you tell us about plants in Europe? 
DR. TOOZE: There was some gagging from the back corner. I don't think 
they want to hear any more about Europe. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: John, stand up so we can be sure we record you. 
DR. TOOZE: I think that the basic categorization in Europe is P2+EK1 
for plant work. 
MR. HUTT: All plant work, virus and nonvirus? 
DR. TOOZE: When I spoke about viruses earlier it was my personal opin- 
ion that all viruses are neglected, and probably plant viruses, since plants 
are usually more neglected than everything else; then plant viruses would 
have been super neglected in the Guidelines as they exist. And certainly 
if we were to try and thresh out some international categorization with vi- 
ruses I would mean plant viruses as well, because clearly the committees that 
have drawn up these guidelines have not, in my opinion, considered any of the 
viruses, including plant viruses, to the extent that they have considered pro- 
karyotes, eukaryotes and so on and so forth. 
MR. HUTT: Is there any significant amount of plant work going on in 
Europe? 
DR. TOOZE: Well, there are two groups. There is one in Ghent and one 
in Leiden who are working on tumefaciens, the same as the lady from Washing- 
ton. There are others working in other areas, about the same level as here. 
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