216 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Dr. Gustafson has a point of clarification. 
DR. GUSTAFSON: Mr. Hutt, when you are talking about the "Advisory 
Committee," are you talking about this Advisory Committee to the Director 
of the NIH or are you — 
MR. HUTT: I am talking about the RAC. 
DR. GUSTAFSON: Okay, all right; not us. 
MR. HUTT: God help us, not us. 
(Laughter . ) 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Ms. Simring has a question. Please stand up, Ms. 
Simring, so we can record you. 
MS. SIMRING: A few weeks ago I presented a paper at an Indiana Univer- 
sity conference on recombinant DNA, and my co-participant on the platform was 
Roland Beers, Vice President in Charge of Research Affairs at Miles Labora- 
tories. I presume Miles Laboratories is one of your associate corporations. 
DR. ADAMS: They are. 
MS. SIMRING: Roland Beers admitted in the course of a discussion that 
Miles Laboratories indeed is not following the 1976 Guidelines. They are 
using Bacillus subtilis , and when pressed, he admitted he is using the 
revised guidelines, which of course, it was pointed out, have not been 
accepted as yet. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Are there other comments or questions from the 
Committee for Dr. Adams? 
Then let us move on to — 
DR. AHMED: I think that requires a response. 
MR. HELMS: I do, too. 
DR. AHMED: When you said that you are in compliance with guidelines, 
what guidelines are you in compliance with? I mean, following up on the 
last comment made by Ms. Simring, the proposed revised guidelines or the 
original ones? 
DR. ADAMS: We are in compliance with the original except for the points 
that I have raised here in my comments, and we will be in compliance with the 
revised guidelines, hopefully with whatever modifications may be necessary, 
as I requested in these comments. 
[ 420 ] 
