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but I don't think that they really look at them, and they have never made a 
call back to one of those institutions to say do you or do you not comply. 
I mean, these things just aren't happening. I think that was shown by what 
has come out about Harvard. They didn't know for a full year after the MUA 
was supposed to be on file that it was not on file. Dr. Gartland's response 
was that NIH can't be expected to review all those grants. Well, Charlie 
Thomas was known to work in recombinant DNA. He was a member of this com- 
mittee. It would seem that that should have been checked. And I do expect 
people to look at all of those grants and to enforce the Guidelines. That is 
what they are there for. 
I would just like to take one more second to make a final point. I think 
in terms of confidentiality, I think it is a real problem to give industry 
the blanket, many times the blanket confidentiality they require. The track 
record of what industry has used this for in terms of occupational diseases 
is really outrageous. Before you make any attempt to deal with this issue 
you should really look closely at the experience of other government agencies 
and the track record of other people who have had to deal with this repeatedly. 
Thank you. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Questions for Mr. Dach, or comments? 
Dr. Ahmed. 
DR. AHMED: What do you think would be an adequate staffing right now? 
MR. DACH: 1 am afraid I find that difficult to answer because I am not 
sure what the load of ‘paperwork would be, but I imagine that five or six 
people would certainly be a step in the right direction; let us see what they 
can do. And the cost of safeguarding the public from the possible hazard 
should be considered an integral part of the cost of the research, and not 
something that you sort of worry about as an excess cost. It should be 
really looked at, as the technology involves both costs in developing the 
benefits and costs in preventing us from the risks. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Other comments or questions? 
Mr. Helms. 
MR. HELMS: You had mentioned that having the paperwork of industry 
processed through NIH in some fashion or other that was manageable, under a 
confidential system. That wouldn't bother you, would it? 
MR. DACH: On the face of it, it would not bother me to put that through 
NIH. I think the makeup of the committee that dealt with that information 
might have to be changed from the way it is now, and I would like to look 
more closely at exactly what the procedures were for calling things proprie- 
tary and on what basis they could be released to the public. I think we do 
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