224 
have experience in other areas. I don't have problems with them serving as 
the agency if they can put the show together, but I think in many ways it 
might be easier to have another agency with more expertise in enforcement be 
responsible for that. Perhaps CDC has some more experience, or perhaps 
another agency in HEW. I am not sure. 
MR. HELMS: Okay, a government agency. I would rather not quibble about 
who does what to whom. 
MR. DACH: Right. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Any other comments or questions? 
If not, then — yes? Oh, Dr. Kamely, who is in the ORDA office. Dr. 
Kamely, please come to the microphone. Dr. Kamely is one of the three people 
just referred to. 
DR. KAMELY: I just wanted to clarify that as overworked as we are, we 
check every single MUA that comes in very carefully, and we check the member- 
ship of the IBC. So far, we haven't found any of the suggested membership 
offensive to turn down, and that's why they haven't heard from us. 
But we acknowledged them in letters. As overworked as we are, we really 
try to do our job. 
SPEAKER: Please speak up, we can't hear a word you say down here. 
DR. KAMELY: I just wanted to say that as overworked as we are — and we 
are only two persons in the Office of Recombinant DNA Activities — we check 
the MUAs very carefully, and we check the membership of the IBC. We really 
try to do the best job we can. We haven't found the membership offensive 
to contact the IBCs and tell them that the members are inappropriate. That 
is why they haven't heard from us. But we do oversee all of that. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Thank you, Dr. Kamely. 
MR. DACH: May I just respond? My comments were meant in really a 
perspective mode in that if we are going to give NIH more responsibility 
here, and if such things as the membership of the biohazards committees are 
going to be mandated, there is going to be more workload necessary, and that 
staff is going to have to be expanded. I never meant to say that they 
weren't doing the job the best they can as much as they are overworked, but 
rather that they were getting too much work for anyone to really expect them 
to do it properly. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Ms. Pfund, I believe you are the last of the invited 
witnesses who wishes to speak at this point. 
MS. PFUND: Essentially Leslie has covered a lot of the points I wanted 
to make. I just want to endorse the measures he has suggested for really 
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