237 
Now, I think it is very sad, as someone who has given--to me I find it 
sad--has always supported the environmental movement, given money to EDF , and 
so on, to find them spending this sum of money on what I consider — without 
any evidence. You have to have your credibility, that when you attack some- 
thing, there is evidence; not just say "I don't like you." 
DR. AHMED: Let me respond to that. 
DR. WATSON: Let me say one more thing. I think we have heard enormous 
talks about people who haven't obeyed the regulations. Now, I think they 
should have, and at Cold Spring Harbor, God, we try to follow them, because 
we know our necks would be cut off if we didn't. But we should be careful 
of what sorts of penalties we pay against people who cheat at tiddlywinks. 
DR. AHMED: My response to that, and I think this is a greatly important 
question, you support public interest groups, apparently, and you think that 
the kind of work they do should have a basis of fact? 
DR. WATSON: Yes. 
DR. AHMED: Every issue that we have ever been involved in, there has 
always been two sides to the question — DDT, DES, all the D's you can mention, 
all the E's, F's, and G's. There has always been two sides to the question. 
There were people who in the early days of DDT said there is no problem what- 
soever with DDT. Now, you happen to believe in the DDT disaster, you happen 
to believe in toxic substances. There is a whole field of thinking that — 
DR. WATSON: I believe it when someone shows that someone is ill, sick. 
DR. AHMED: Weil, sometimes you don't have the evidence of sickness. You 
can only make judgment by extrapolating from animal studies or from some — 
DR. WATSON: I mean, how do I know that you aren't sort of a professional 
killer? I have no — I mean, I can say it looks like it. I don't think you 
are, but maybe you are. 
(Laughter . ) 
You know, you could be a Russian spy out to divert the United States 
against, you know, you could imagine all these sorts of plots. How to do in 
our great country. 
DR. AHMED: But it is true that there has always been two sides to the 
question, and when you make a categorical remark that there is no evidence, I 
find it hard to accept. 
DR. WATSON: 
of evidence, one 
dangerous? 
Will anyone in this audience stand up and show one piece 
item from the literature, in which recombinant DNA is 
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