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DR. GINSBERG: Yes. I would eliminate anything that can be included in 
a P1+EK1 . 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Even under the new conditions? 
DR. GINSBERG: Even under the new. I find that the restrictions of 
those are so minimal, but yet they add administrative work of, I think, an 
unnecessary amount. 
I certainly agree with the Guidelines in eliminating the non-novel 
associations of DNA. 
My primary recommendation that I would like to make deals with the 
discussion that we had last night after Dr. Rowe's presentation vis-a-vis 
virology. I think that it is in certain areas far more restrictive than any 
of the present data lead us to believe necessary, and particularly in terms 
of dealing with all of the viruses as though they were the same. And rather 
than try to make certain specific recommendations now, what I would like 
to recommend is that we defer from the new Guidelines the entire area of 
virology, where one uses animal viruses, either warm- or cold-blooded, and 
have the Committee reexamine that area and put out an addendum to the new 
Guidelines as soon as possible. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Dr. Ginsberg, when you say defer, you suggest retain- 
ing — 
DR. GINSBERG: Just tear it out. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: But retaining for the present the Guidelines of '76? 
DR. GINSBERG: That is right, because essentially you can't do enough 
more with these Guidelines than you could with those. I think that the entire 
field would be advanced faster if we kept it at the present level for now with 
a statement that they are being examined, and that sections will come out 
separately. Because otherwise I am afraid if we put out these Guidelines it 
will take a long time before we get the revisions out. I just think that it 
would be a more efficient and effective way of advancing the field in areas 
that need to be done. 
I then turn to my next love, and that is education and training, and I 
certainly agree — as you know, I have agreed all along — that we must in some 
way try to improve the educational level of people who work with recombinant 
DNA. It is totally unclear to me how that can be done. Really working well 
with infectious agents requires a large amount of training. It is sort of 
a reflex more than an exact technical thing that one can teach in a total- 
immersion course of a week. So I am not quite sure how to recommend that 
we do it. I think that it needs to be done. I don't feel as frantic about 
it as I once did, because I take quite the different viewpoint of somebody's 
testimony about the best people having done the research, and that is why 
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