262 
we haven't had accidents. I think we couldn't have had a worse group doing 
the research than has been doing it in terms of knowing microbiological 
techniques. Brilliant minds, but sloppy hands. And yet we haven't had 
accidents, so I am less frantic than I was. But I think it needs to be 
paid some attention to. 
Finally, I would hope that in some way we can deal with the Guidelines 
and the local biosafety committees in a way so that the tasks we give them are 
absolutely essential, because if we put on to them layers and layers of 
unnecessary requirements, they will be so overburdened that nothing will get 
done . 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Dr. Ginsberg, just for the record I want to clarify 
that your statement about the deferral of Guideline revisions around the virus 
stems from — and please don't let me say this for you--because you don't 
believe that it is an adequate revision, and that it needs to go further? Is 
that right? 
DR. GINSBERG: Yes, that is exactly right. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: I have to know this because it may be that the time 
involved and so forth in having a separate revision might make it very 
difficult, so I want to know your biases. 
DR. GINSBERG: Yes, I think that the revision hasn't done enough for the 
science, and I think it is still so restrictive that the field can't go on. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: I understand. 
Mr. Dennis Helms, Special Assistant to the Attorney General at Trenton, 
New Jersey. That is a very frightening title. 
MR. HELMS: Thank you. I work for a very wise man who has given me a 
unique opportunity to be free in my views and to participate in this discus- 
sion. I would also say how grateful I am to be here today. This is almost 
a year and a half since I first headed down this road, and of course, as an 
attorney, the problem that faced me initially and still is a problem, is the 
problem of communication. So the criticisms that I have of the Guidelines 
are in part criticisms that deal with communication. 
I think you have done an excellent job and I think you have done it 
under difficult circumstances, but I think more has to be done, simply 
because of the level of ignorance, or, to put it another way, the level of 
expertise required to appreciate what is going on here. Consequently I 
would certainly endorse the suggestion which I believe came from Mr. Hutt 
the other day that the material in the Green Book, or some reasonable approx- 
imation of that, be included as the introduction to this document, because 
if it is going to be useful it has to have more for the layman in it than 
it does now. 
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