76 
whether that experiment has succeeded, because in fact one has to have 
some fairly sophisticated way of knowing whether the bacterium has taken 
up the plasmid and has taken up the new section of DNA, and that again 
requires — let us assume that they have mixed them and they have got some- 
thing, and they then pour it down the drain. 
MRS. PETERSON: But that means that the damage could have been done, 
doesn't it? 
DR. BERG: That is quite likely, that if they had carried out this 
experiment and if one assumes that there is that type of risk, then that 
could be done. 
Now, as I say, most likely the type of DNA that a high school class 
would use is not likely to be the DNA for botulinus, and it is not likely 
to be from an organism which we consider pathogenic, because they are al- 
ready not available to those groups. 
So it is only the lowest-risk types of organisms that one is likely to 
have involved in such experiments, and already in regard to risks they will 
know that the containment requirements and the types of vectors suggested 
are almost at the lowest level. So I don't think there is a finite chance, 
frankly, of any disaster coming out of that kind of an experiment. 
MR. HUTT: You say those are not available. Is that absolutely certain, 
the dangerous kind, under any circumstances? 
DR. BERG: The availability of some of those organisms, class three, 
four, and five organisms is proscribed to those groups. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Dr. Singer would like to supplement your answer. 
DR. SINGER: I just wanted to say this, that this whole notion that 
these experiments that could be done in high school laboratories was raised 
very early on in a conversation to give some idea that the experiments were 
relatively simple to do. But I think in fact it has gotten somewhat over- 
blown by now, because I think it is highly unlikely that such experiments 
would be undertaken in high school laboratories for a couple of reasons. 
First, there is the reason that Dr. Berg already alluded to — that it 
is one thing to mix everything together, and another thing to know whether 
in fact you have done an experiment and have had something work. Doing 
that is more difficult, and I don't think by and large that people under- 
take experiments in high school laboratories that have no purpose. They 
are usually set up for the instruction of students, and mixing two solu- 
tions doesn't teach anybody anything. 
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