103 
previous experience, which I know may have been somewhat traumatic from 
time to time. 
(Laughter. ) 
Nevertheless, I think that there is a statement that you are making 
that precludes moving back any of the frontiers of science. To me that is 
an anathema. 
MR. HUTT: I would simply say in response that science can move ahead 
without, I think, tremendous impediment if there is some degree of control, 
and it does not preclude placing on those who wish to move ahead the ini- 
tial burden of showing that there is a reasonable risk, and the lowest 
possible risk being borne by the public. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Dr. Dodds, you had your hand up. 
DR. DODDS: I have listened to the concerns referable to the physical 
containment, and the concern with the type of host, and I come back to 
something that to me is very important. The only thing I have heard about 
the containment of the human being is that if he does something wrong we 
will slap his fingers and shut off his money. 
I am curious — what do you do with the irresponsible investigator, or 
maybe he doesn't exist. I don't know; I am asking. If he doesn't exist, 
then the question would be easily answered. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: I suppose. Dr. Dodds, not to evade your question, 
that we are right now trying to define how we would define irresponsibil- 
ity, and then we can return to your question again in terms of the strength 
of the guidelines as opposed to regulations and all that sort of thing. 
MS. HAYGOOD: I think that E. coli as an organism presents a lot of 
advantages in terms of safety because it is so well understood, but I 
think it is also clear that it is not the most desirable type of organism 
to be used routinely, simply because it is so ubiquitous. I know that 
this is recognized in the proposed guidelines, and it is suggested that 
other systems should be developed with the intent that in the long run 
they should become the standard laboratory organism for as many experi- 
ments as possible. 
But I don't think that it is clear in the guidelines what sort of 
incentives there are going to be for the development of these kinds of 
organisms. I think that everyone is so comfortable with E. coli that if 
the development of such organisms is delayed, and they arrive on the 
scene later, we should consider what the scenario is going to be when that 
happens, and what is the appropriate way of gently moving people away from 
such a ubiquitous organism. 
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