112 
DR. BALTIMORE: The argument I draw partly from an argument that was 
made much more broadly by a guy from Oxford, whose name I have forgotten. 
He said he felt that all DNA had been joined at some time — Walter Bodmer 
— that all DNA had been joined at some time in history, and you didn't have 
to worry about anything. I certainly wouldn't go that far, but I would say 
that for instance, the joining of random bits of the E_j_ coli chromosome back 
to plasmids has certainly gone on. The joining of the DNAs that form a 
family of genetic transfer have certainly gone on, probably with some rea- 
sonable frequency, because you can isolate them in the laboratory if you try 
The kind of random DNA effect, by inserting random DNAs into plasmids, 
the ability to cause a high level of pathogenicity that way strikes me as 
extremely unlikely. One has to worry about more focused problems than 
those. 
I would never say that anything is 100 percent impossible, but when 
I am looking at where does the danger seem to me and what dangers should 
we be responding to in a defined way, I don't think that the mere insertion 
of DNA is that dangerous. 
DR. SINSHEIMER: We don't know what the historic frequency of such 
events is, and not all things in the world are linear. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Any other question or comment for Dr. Baltimore? 
MR. LADWIG: Just a point of clarification. Were you saying that you 
think the scientists as a public advocate was sufficient to keep tabs on 
this type of thing and that public input from outside science was not needed 
DR. BALTIMORE: By no means. 
MR. LUDWIG: I don't think I heard that right. 
DR. BALTIMORE: I explicitly said that I felt that input from outside 
of science is needed. What I am trying to do is to put in a somewhat dif- 
ferent context the events over the last few years, because I am effectively 
responding to a charge that hadn't been made here, but has been made widely 
elsewhere, that by having only scientists involved in the process, the 
public's needs are not being served. And I don't really think that is true. 
I think that is making us into the kind of people whom we think exist in 
large industries, for instance — I am trying to be as gentle as possible — 
(Laughter. ) 
DR. HANDLER: Your guidelines are a lot more likely to be observed met- 
iculously in large industry than in the university. 
DR. BALTIMORE: Oh, I completely agree with that. 
[253] 
