115 
or 25, 50 or 55, 100 or 105 years? I implore you to take the time now to 
make the significant changes in the standards for biological experiments 
which will spare us needless regret and human misery in the future. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Thank you, Mr. Madansky. 
Mr. Hutt has a question. 
MR. HUTT: I just have one technical question. There was a list in 
the submission that you or the so-called Boston Group made of things that 
should be prohibited. There is also a similar list in the guidelines. I 
am not technically competent to determine whether those two lists are the 
same or different, and if differences exist, would you explain why your 
list is longer? All I could do is add the numbers, and you seem to want 
to prohibit eight things and the advisory committee guidelines prohibited 
six. 
Dr. Singer, I might ask you the same question. I simply could not 
correlate them. Can you describe the differences between your two lists 
or are they the same? 
MR. MADANSKY: Right now I don't have that list in front of me, but 
I can say that there are some clear differences between the two lists, and 
those experiments which in fact have gone forward in various laboratories 
in California and Boston with invertebrates — that is, insects like 
Drosophila melanogaster — which we are asking that they be considered vis-a- 
vis their potential hazard by not going ahead under what we consider to be 
too low classifications. There are many differences, but I can't go into 
them all. 
DR. TALBOT: There are four items essentially the same on the two 
lists — that is, prohibited by both. Two of the items that are prohibited 
in the La Jolla guidelines aren't on the list from the Boston Area Recom- 
binant DNA Group. Four of the items on the latter list are not prohibited 
in the La Jolla guidelines, but they are discussed, and containment guide- 
lines are specified. 
MR. HUTT: Could we at some point, and this may be an inappropriate 
point — you may want to defer this, Don — but perhaps Dr. Singer could ex- 
plain why the four on the Boston list were not on the NIH guidelines at 
some appropriate point, whenever you would like. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: I think it is appropriate now to take this up, be- 
cause such analysis is available. Dr. Singer? 
DR. SINGER: I could certainly do this, but I would like a few minutes 
to sort out, and I would like to be sure I am looking at the right lists 
before I start. That is page 3? 
[256] 
