142 
Dr. Melnick, did you have a point relative to this? 
DR. MELNICK: Yes. Dr. Brown raised the question as to whether 
working with the virus itself might not be more dangerous than working 
with the DNA recombinant. And while this may be true, it may be more 
dangerous to the individaul worker, it will not — SV40 will not spread 
from person to person, whereas if it gets into an E_^ coli and is let 
loose in the community, theoretically it may be spread from those 
people infected with E_^_ coli . 
DR. BROWN: It is not clear to me how you say that, Dr. Melnick. It 
is my understanding that workers in a laboratory get infected with SV40. 
DR. MELNICK: When they are working with the virus itself, but they 
do not get infected from their neighbor. 
DR. BROWN: You mean then they don't go back to their family and re- 
infect them? It should be stated in the same tone then, sir, that it has 
already been stated by Roy Curtiss and others that the E_j_ coli K12 does 
not multiply in the gut. It just goes through the gut, and therefore 
it strikes me as very bizarre that if such a bacteria which does not 
multiply in the gut is able to produce any kind of epidemic — 
DR. MELNICK: Well, I think the data that Roy Curtiss showed us 
today, that E. coli would probably be harmless also. I don't think 
there would be the risk. 
I was just answering your question on this virus and the potential 
danger of having recombinant DNA. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Dr. Hogness? 
DR. HOGNESS: Well, I only wanted to quote to Don and re-emphasize 
what Maxine said to Don in relation to page 3, which is that "Indeed, we 
urge that individual investigators devise simpler and more effective con- 
tainment procedures, and that study sections give consideration to such 
devise simpler and more effective containment procedures, and that study 
sections give consideration to such procedures which may allow change 
in the containment levels recommended here." 
We put that in, anticipating that you would want to make a case for 
lowering something from P3 to P2 because such and such might include a 
new recombinant procedure. You make the case to your study section, and 
we are encouraging them to consider such flexibility. 
DR. BROWN: My question is whether or not these rules, under these 
rules, it is possible to reduce for example EK2 to EK1. 
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