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experiment. Both PI conditions. But because they are in the same lab and 
they use the same centrifuge and the same common equipment, and there are 
always these problems of aerosols, you automatically produce a very hazard- 
ous situation. 
When we consider these kinds of things we have to ask ourselves very 
seriously what are the benefits of these things. For example, can we take 
any risk of letting the population accidentally have a bug that will produce, 
say, insulin in their intestinal flora. This is cited as a benefit, but you 
know, what really would happen if the population would have such a thing? 
When we say, for example, let us produce more fertilizer by hooking 
these genes on to the root nodules, there are many other considerations. I 
mean, what would happen to weeds, for example, and what would happen if some 
of these genes started churning out interesting atmospheric by-products. 
In retrospect, really the only benefits may be scientific. However, 
even these are somewhat ambiguous. We have not exhausted all of the imagi- 
nation and scientific effort today. For example, one of the main scientific 
benefits comes when you want to amplify a piece of DNA, you want to find 
out which genes are on each side of the fragment you are studying, and on 
the controlling element, and people cite cloning as the only way to do 
this. But in fact, on the horizon, and in fact doable right now, this can 
be done to a certain extent in the test tube. There are DNA replication 
systems, for example at Stanford and for example at Princeton when you can 
amplify 10^, 1(P times the actual starting amount of DNA. It is not 
hard to imagine extending this and being able to do everything in the test 
tube without resorting to bacterial systems. 
I mean, we have to reflect on these kinds of possibilities, and because 
we can always increase the sensitivity of detecting these systems, and think- 
ing of new ways of doing it, maybe we can do it directly without resorting 
to bacterial systems. 
Where do we go from here? I would seriously ask the committee to rec- 
ommend just simply delaying a lot of these experiments, and substitute in 
their stead experiments to ask questions about the hazards. For example, 
the question of going on at Fort Detrick, in which people ask whether there 
is a chance to seroconvert with these plasmids in the experiments. Just ask 
what are the risks, and delay the experiments. 
We all know that this conference here, this committee, whatever it 
votes will have international consequences, and if it votes yes, there will 
be an exponential increase in the number of labs and the people doing these 
experiments. That merits serious thought. 
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